Will KDS Work In 2007?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:30 am

I know I started this thought on another thread, but I thought I'd share some thoughts here about KDS and 3RR and get some input from you folks. After running a few drafts this off-season, it's obvious to Tom and myself that KDS is working just fine for our NFFC participants as 3RR makes each draft spot have some value this year. That just didn't seem to be the case in the past.

I decided to talk about KDS here because I noticed that draft inequality is being talked about on the WCOFF boards. It's a good, valid discussion that was started by Sam Hendricks, who wrote a fantasy football book this year. He suggested that to make serpentine drafts more fair this year, the top three players should be tossed out to prevent an unfair advantage to the top three teams. That seems a bit drastic, but it's obvious he feels that LT2, LJ and SJax are just too good to be included in leagues this year.

Again, I think that's a bit drastic and other WCOFF owners have agreed. Some have even commented that the NFFC has 3RR to alleviate this problem. Leroy's Aces, who was a co-manager in the NFFC last year, states that while 3RR may work in the NFFC, we're becoming a bit quirky with all of our rules to be accepted by the masses. We now have 14 teams, KDS, 3RR and FAAB, so we appear to be non-traditional, which is correct.

But in the end, shouldn't every product give what the customer wants? Or should we all be like sheep and just follow the same rules and guidelines? I feel strongly about this because I agree that competing in a 12-team, serpentine draft is the most common format and I LOVE playing in those leagues. When a few bucks or a travelling trophy or bragging rights are on the line, that's a great format.

But when folks are plunking down a month's salary to play fantasy football -- or more -- maybe the format should be the fairest way for everyone to compete for the prize. And almost as importantly to me, the format should be PERCEIVED by all participants as being the fairest. Over the last three years, folks complained about our draft order because the facts proved that it was tougher to win from the back end of the draft than from the front. It wasn't IMPOSSIBLE to win from back there, but it was tougher. Same is true in the WCOFF.

3RR was designed to balance the power in the NFFC this year and I hope it does make all leagues more competitive. But 3RR has also made KDS better because with Third Round Reversal folks have a different view of what spots are the most valuable on Draft Day. Some like the front of the draft, some prefer the back-end and some have even requested the middle picks. It's amazing how different each KDS list is and it's also amazing how it seems most owners get one of their preferred choices each draft.

We've run a few satellite leagues so far and for the most part owners are getting one of their top four or five preferences. The recent NFFC Magazine II league is a perfect example as 10 of the 14 owners got their Top 4 preference. Only one owner got a preference lower than 7th. Now no matter how you slice it, knowing that 13 of 14 owners got a draft spot that was in their top half is good news for everyone. Everyone is drafting in a spot that doesn't tick 'em off and some got spots exactly where they wanted. How can any of that be bad for fantasy football participants at this price level?

I agree, that the NFFC is now unique and different from the masses. Maybe we're too non-traditional. It's now important that we make sure EVERY owner understands how KDS works and how 3RR will be implemented. Tom and I will have to personally call a lot of folks beforehand to make sure they are on the same page. And of course I think providing data from NFFC Satellite Leagues will help people understand it, too. That's our job this off-season.

I agree with Dave (Leroy's Aces) that the NFFC is non-traditional now. Maybe we are quirky. But I trust our participants will enjoy the experience and our return rate will increase with each passing season. And in time, maybe other high-stakes contests will realize that with this much money on the line, balancing the playing field is as important as bringing in the highest number of participants. Because what it comes down to is that every owner just wants a fair shot at the grand prize. Honestly, I think the NFFC offers that better than any other contest out there.

Thoughts? WCOFF participants are welcome to chime in too.

pizzatyme · Post by **pizzatyme** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 5:44 am

Greg,

I have been waiting to join any of these high stakes leagues until a fairer way of drafting came about. Outside of an auction, I see 3RR as the fairest way. I speak highly of the NFFC on my site for this reason.

I was considering WCOFF since it is bigger and I prefer 12 team leagues. But with 3RR, I can accept the 14 team format.

As popular as auction leagues have become, they were once considered "quirky". Sometimes it takes innovation to stand apart from the rest. Sometimes that is a good thing!

I feel that once this season is over, most will feel that they had a legitimate shot in their draft. The word of mouth bump you will get from this will do wonders for the NFFC as well as 3RR and KDS.

It is refreshing to see and be able to speak to those that are so heavily invested in their product.

My only offering going forward is to consider a higher payout of funds. I think this is keeping some from participating.

It's like going to Vegas and looking at the slot machines. Those that show the higher payout % are played more heavily than those that show no or lower payout percentages. Vegas put this in place to cater to their locals or regulars.

You'd be doing the same thing by promoting your payout percent.

I have enjoyed my brief time here on the boards and I look forward to my first draft down in Tampa.

I hope you take my feedback as honest and constructive.

Russ aka UFFCs

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:00 am

'Thoughts? WCOFF participants are welcome to chime in too.'

I wanted to join because of 3RR and KDS.

So I'm a happy camper.

[ June 22, 2007, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: Raiders ]

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:07 am

Greg, I'd disagree that you've crossed over into quirkiness. You've made slight, easy-to-understand changes that substantially improve the equality of the most controversial part of the game (draft slots).

KDS alone was a debatable improvement/change, since many had similar preferences anyway. But KDS/3RR is a very meaningful improvement that effectively addresses the shortcoming of random selection. I'd expect the number of "slot" complaints to fall off drastically this yr with the new system; hopefully is also serves to draw in new customers too.

Sack · Post by **Sack** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:24 am

I've been with NFFC since day #1 and have played the WCOFF since Year #2. Till now, the overall NFFC experience has been much better. I like the challenge of the 14 team league and feel you get more bang for your buck with the 13 week schedule.

Both KDS and 3RR give the player more input into your draft selection and for the $1300 entry fee that is a welcome addition. While I do enjoy WCOFF and will play again this season mainly because of Gridiron Sports ( Jesse Herron & Dustin Ashbys ) involvement no other high stakes contest(s) can come close to the customer service/ hands on approach of Greg A and his staff.

Captain Hook · Post by **Captain Hook** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:49 am

Good posting Greg. As a member of both the WCOFF and NFFC/NFBC communities, I truly like the fact that both of the major football competitions ARE different.

Certainly the addition of 3RR to the existing KDS preference ranking will make the NFFC more attractive to those not already with us; and more enjoyable for those who already participate in this contest.

One of the erroneous knocks on 3RR is that it is an overreaction to Tomlinson's great season [in reality that occurs when there is a clear cut #1 preference - go back to the Marshall Faulk heyday for a comparison]. It is NOT just the first draft position that benefits from the serpentine draft format - it is all the first X drafters before the first perceived dropoff who then have the advantage of an early pick in the third round to add to their existing adavantage. It is not clear that Tomlinson will again be the first in RB FF points in 2007; but it is the bet most likely to be made. The real problem is combining that security with two more picks in the first 29 (or 25 in WCOFF) and giving the drafter more of an advantage.

While the better FF players will consistently do well from ANY position, 3RR levels the field to the degree possible in a Draft and improves the chances and enjoyment for the entire field.

TURBOUGH · Post by **TURBOUGH** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:07 am

Did my first draft last night using the 3RR system? I was drafting from the 10th position and loved it. I leveled the playing field out (IMO) and was a change from the ordinary. Thanks for having the courage to make a change of this nature.

I know people have always discussed payout percentages but I truly believe that if the NFFC were to increase payouts by 3%-5%, it could truly seperate itself even more than it already has. I've extremely pleased with everything since coming over and the 14 team leagues have grown on me.

For those that are not sure about what type of league to join, just remember that the NFFC plays head-to-head games through week 13 which is two more weeks of entertainment. That is something everyone should factor in.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:20 am

Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
I know people have always discussed payout percentages but I truly believe that if the NFFC were to increase payouts by 3%-5%, it could truly seperate itself even more than it already has. I've extremely pleased with everything since coming over and the 14 team leagues have grown on me. I certainly understand the need to have better payouts and nobody would like to have higher payouts than me. Because we haven't sold out the first three years, our payouts in the NFFC have been over 80 percent a year. I hope we don't do that again!!

Our live NFFC drafts have 75-76% payouts this year and the goal would be to have all of them at 74-75%. When you factor in doing live drafts at four different venues with staffers at each city and paying rental fees at each facility, the percentage of profit even if we sell out remains fair. Licensing has been another expense in the past that both the NFFC and WCOFF have paid, something folks rarely consider when seeing the payouts.

But as we grow with online satellite leagues and larger live drafts, auction leagues and ultimate leagues, the payouts will become more consistent and fair. If we can reduce our expenses, maybe the prize percentage can rise, but right now 75% seems like a fair spot knowing all the expenses we have with these live drafts. Now if I were to make you stay at our host hotel for one night and charge you for lunch and drinks and other expenses, then I could raise it. But that just seems like taxation without representation!!

da bears · Post by **da bears** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:41 am

I have been with NFFC from the start and have loved the improvements over the years. The NFFC is contantly evolving to meet the needs of its customers unlike the other high stakes games out there. Like KJDuke said, draft slots have been the most controversial part of the game, especially recently. 3RR has really addressed this problem along with KDS and it is pretty evident I think from the two drafts I have this year involving both. It really does level the playing field it appears and although it was a risky change maybe, it was the right change at this time. Thanks Greg for taking a chance on 3RR. Look forward to having a few beers with you in Vegas