NFFC Message Boards

There has been a request on the Message Boards for the NFFC to look at the way we pay out prize money in our high-dollar private leagues. Those would include the Platinum, Diamond, Ultimate and Super Leagues.

Right now we allow four teams to reach the Championship Round in those leagues and we pay the Top 3 teams from Weeks 14-16. We also allow the eight other teams to compete for one prize in the Consolation Round in Weeks 14-16. That's the payout structure in each of our leagues.

The request is to provide a cash prize to the 4th place team in those leagues rather than give a cash prize to the top scoring team in the Consolation Round. The thinking is that if you're good enough to make the Championship Round, you should leave with something rather than nothing. We understand the request.

Before diving into the numbers, please understand our rationale in setting the prizes the way we do. We do believe that if you are in the Championship Round you have a 1 in 4 shot of winning the league title and the top prize. That is what everyone is concentrating on. We also want every team to play for every point during the regular season in these private leagues and by keeping everyone in contention for some prize it accomplishes that goal. The Consolation Round also allows all 12 (or 14) teams to keep playing for some type of prize for 16 weeks of the season. Ending the season after Week 13 for 75 percent of the teams doesn't seem productive, especially when some of those teams could be out of contention for prize money after 10 or sooner.

So that's where we are, and we certainly understand the request for a change. So let's look at the facts:

Last year we had 9 private high-stakes leagues where four teams made the Championship Round and 8 (or 10) teams were in the Consolation Round competing for a prize. We paid 3 of the 4 teams in the Championship Round, meaning that one team didn't earn any prize money. The Consolation Round winner won one-fifth of their entry fee. While that wasn't much, it still was something to play for. In most of these leagues, 98 percent of the prize money goes to those teams in the Championship Round and 2 percent goes to one team in the Consolation Round.

Okay, so here's the facts from those 9 leagues last year:

** In all 9 leagues, the Consolation Round winner finished with more points in Weeks 14-16 than the 4th place team in the Championship Round.

** In 4 of 9 leagues, the Consolation Round winner finished with more points from Weeks 1-16 than the 4th place team in the Championship Round. Now conversely, that means that 5 fourth place teams had more points for the season than the Consolation Round winner, so that's worth nothing.

** The Consolation Round prize winners finished the regular season in their leagues with these point totals:
5th highest (3 teams)
6th highest (3 teams)
7th highest (1 team)
9th highest (1 team)
11th highest (1 team)
This shows a wide mix, proving that you can come back from 9th or 11th during the regular season to still win prize money, or you can just miss out on the Championship Round and still win something with a strong Week 14-16 showing.

** No team that finished fourth in the Championship Round won regular season prize money. In other words, no h2h league champion or total points champion finished out of the money in the Championship Round. All of those teams finished in the Top 3 and got additional prize money. Of the teams that finished 4th in the Championship Round and didn't receive prize money they finished the regular season:
2nd in total points (1 team)
3rd in total points (2 teams)
4th in total points (6 teams)

I will say that in most of these leagues there was a pretty good divide between the Top 4 teams and the non-Championship Round teams. But in one league the 5th place team missed the Championship Round by 4.9 points and then easily won the Consolation Round. So there are still a lot of good teams that just didn't make the Championship Round.

Here's the individual league results:

Platinum League: Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 5th in points during the regular season and he outscored the 4th place team by 53 points in the season point totals.

Diamond League: The Consolation Round champion finished 11th among 12 teams during the regular season and then outscored everyone except the Diamond champion in Weeks 14-16 to win $2,000.

Ultimate 12-Team Las Vegas League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 5th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth was 3rd during the regular season. That team still outscored the Consolation Round champion for all 16 weeks, but was outscored by that team in the last three weeks by 23.59 points.

Ultimate 12-Team Online League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 6th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth was outscored by that team during the least three weeks by 91.96 points and finished with fewer total points for the season than the Consolation Round champion.

Super Online Sept. 2nd League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 6th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth in the Championship Round finished 2nd in points during the regular season. The Consolation Round champion finished the year almost 200 points behind the fourth place finisher, but he did outscore that team in Weeks 14-16 by 11.08 points.

Super Online Sept. 3rd League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 5th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth was fourth during the regular season and was outscored by the Consolation Round champion in Weeks 14-16 by 57.36 points and finished 37.06 points behind that team for the season.

Super Online Sept. 6th League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 7th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth had finished third during the regular season in points and finished with more points than the Consolation Round champion for the season. It was outscored by that team in Weeks 14-16 by 6.68 points, however.

New York Super League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 6th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth was also fourth during the regular season and made the Championship Round by just 4.9 points. The Consolation Round champion then outscored that team in Weeks 14-16 by 57.12 points.

Las Vegas 14-Team Super Auction League: The Consolation Round champion was won by the team that finished 9th during the regular season. The team that finished fourth had been third in points during the regular season but was outscored by that Consolation Round champion by 105.8 points during Weeks 14-16.

Our analysis:

It's pretty strong evidence that teams can still finish low in total points during the regular season and still win some type of prize. It also shows that not every fourth place finisher was the fourth best total points team in that league. At this point, we don't see a reason to change the prize structure in every league, and in fact, we believe it does give reason for every team in every league to continue fighting for every possible point for 16 straight weeks. There is an incentive for everyone to keep on playing, even if that prize is only 2% of the total prize pool.

Thoughts? We are interested in everyone's feedback, but at least we now have facts to talk this through. Thanks all.

I appreciate you taking the time to look through all of this information Greg. I think that one thing that has changed in recent years is the number of teams that each player runs. Ten years ago it might have been 3 or and having the opportunity for a second change (consolation prize) might have been appealing. Today I actually look forward to leagues being over if I'm not in contention for winning. So the continuation of the league for the hopes of a consolation prize is something I could care less about. I just prefer for it to be over if I"m not going for the top money. I would guess that most participants in these leagues play in a number of different leagues and this isn't their only team for the year.

So for me, I strongly prefer a 4th place prize. Even if it's something small. If you're opposed to a 4th place prize then I would prefer more money in the 2nd and 3rd place prizes. I do appreciate you wanting to put this out there for the players to decide. I"m guessing it won't even be close but it's good that you are going through the process. We all have enough leagues now that the consolation rounds are probably outdated and could easily be gone. I get having them on the national contest level as many of those players may only play in a league or 2. But for these high dollar private leagues let's do away with consolations. Just my 2 cents.


Wayne

Fantastic post Greg, and thank you for your response. I understand the rationale behind a consolation in the national contests, but not in the high end or the lower end satellites for that matter. If you are lucky enough to make the playoffs you did well. To say you need to make a playoff for those that didn’t make the playoffs seems off. They lost... they’re done. Raising my hand very high for that money to go to 4th place.... also I do hope to see some of the leveling out of the other contest prizes. It certainly keeps me from joining an Ultimate each year. If the top prize on 14 team leagues were elevated I’m sure you’d see the results would be impressive. Thanks again Shawn Gundy

I was one of the “sinful” owners that won the Consolation Round. In last year’s Ultimate league, I had a good team and was in the mix for a playoff spot until the end. Late in the season, I suffered an early game injury to my QB that killed my chances. End result: no playoffs for me. Thanks to the Consolation Round, I knew I still had something to play for. I set my best lineup in Weeks 14-16, and hoped for the best.

This is only one person’s opinion, but I relish the opportunity to play for 16 weeks instead of 13. Wayne’s argument about cutting off teams that are out of contention has some merit—I paid very little attention to my many “dead” Online Championship teams late in the season. However, for big money, there should be an opportunity to get SOMETHING — especially for good teams that got squeezed out of a playoff spot.

I would further argue that the four teams in the playoffs are very rarely the best four teams. Of course, the line has to be drawn somewhere, so we have a method of determining who plays for the league grand prize. Consolation Rounds provide some built-in protection against good teams getting screwed.

Great posts. Keep 'em coming. Everyone has opinions and that's the beauty of these discussions. No opinion is naturally wrong.

The good news is that we're talking about 2% of the prize money. I'll post how we are handling the other 98 percent very shortly. Thanks Shawn for spurring us into that discussion. Those prizes needed tweaking for sure and I've done that.

Thanks again. Great discussion.

I like the current system as is because while I doubt it motivates all teams to stay active, I do think it provides enough motivation to keep a couple of teams active in free agency and with lineups that might otherwise stop trying. Keeping teams active all 16 weeks without rewarding something random and silly like head 2 head is a plus for me (a big reason I started playing here is because I love points based leagues and moving away from the head 2 head luck factor).

I looked back at a few of my private leagues and it also wasn't particularly uncommon for the consolation winner to have scored more points cumulatively in Weeks 1-16 than the 4th place winner. So there are some cases where giving the 4th place team money would be unfair because the consolation winner has a better overall season.

I had a couple of playoff teams that finished 4th last year and didn't feel screwed. I just felt those playoff teams sucked and regretted my lineup choices, usual fantasy football stuff.

I am of the Wayne's World way of thinking. Which is excellent!

I update my lineups no matter what, because it keeps the system fair. Even with the consolation prize, I am not paying as much close attention on the waivers for a team that is dead to me.

I would take the vote for each league to see how they feel.

King of Queens wrote:I was one of the “sinful” owners that won the Consolation Round. In last year’s Ultimate league, I had a good team and was in the mix for a playoff spot until the end. Late in the season, I suffered an early game injury to my QB that killed my chances. End result: no playoffs for me. Thanks to the Consolation Round, I knew I still had something to play for. I set my best lineup in Weeks 14-16, and hoped for the best.

This is only one person’s opinion, but I relish the opportunity to play for 16 weeks instead of 13. Wayne’s argument about cutting off teams that are out of contention has some merit—I paid very little attention to my many “dead” Online Championship teams late in the season. However, for big money, there should be an opportunity to get SOMETHING — especially for good teams that got squeezed out of a playoff spot.

I would further argue that the four teams in the playoffs are very rarely the best four teams. Of course, the line has to be drawn somewhere, so we have a method of determining who plays for the league grand prize. Consolation Rounds provide some built-in protection against good teams getting screwed.

What KOQ said.