NFFC Message Boards

Tom,
snake pm'd me a question for when the NFFC has a guest financial planner as a chat host. here's snake's question...

"How many non-profitable years in a row should I play high stakes fantasy football before I consider myself a loser and a bad money manager? Entering this year, I've lost money in two consecutive years.

p.s. when you factor in my thousands of posts and time spent researching fantasy football, what is my ROI...SNAKE"

I figured out what my ROI and NPV will be at the end of the year assuming I win my league this year. I have been playing in the NFFC the last two years (this is my third year). Of course you have to consider the opportunity costs of the time researching fantasy football and the stress of dealing with my wife during the season. However, I also place an intangible value on the enjoyment I got out of playing fantasy football. For this reason, I consider the opportunity costs and intangible entertainment value a wash. So for me it comes down to the actual cash flows:
Year 0 -$1,250 + -$100 = -$1,350
Year 1 -$1,250 + -$650 + -$250 = -$2,150
Year 2 -$1,250 + -650 + -$250 + 600 = -$1,550
Year 3 $5,000
Of course after I win my league:) at the end of this year, the NFFC won't wait clear till next August to pay me my $5,000, but to make it simple, I just assumed until next August. Also, my required return on capital is 10% a year, so my ROI is -.51% and NPV is -$829. EVEN if I win my league this year, my fantasy football endeavors aren't looking very promising from an financial perspective....ouch.

Ryan Ashcraft


Year Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Tom,
snake pm'd me a question for when the NFFC has a guest financial planner as a chat host. here's snake's question...

"How many non-profitable years in a row should I play high stakes fantasy football before I consider myself a loser and a bad money manager? Entering this year, I've lost money in two consecutive years.

p.s. when you factor in my thousands of posts and time spent researching fantasy football, what is my ROI...SNAKE"

[ August 22, 2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: ryanash11 ]

ryan - i like your sense of humor. i see you are pick 12 in the las vegas draft champions format. i'm at 14. i look forward to meeting you.

Great, my financial future looks even more bleak since I will be playing in the same league as the 2004 NFFC winner. Look forward to meeting you Mark.......

Ryan


ryan - i like your sense of humor. i see you are pick 12 in the las vegas draft champions format. i'm at 14. i look forward to meeting you. [/quote]

[ August 22, 2006, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: ryanash11 ]

Originally posted by ryanash11:
Great, my financial future looks even more bleak since I will be playing in the same league as the 2004 NFFC winner. Look forward to meeting you Mark.......
i'd be more worried about the folks at the start of the draft (slots 1-3). they have the advantage starting out. it's our job to make sure there are no stud WR's, p.manning or A.gates left for them.

Don't worry about playing against the winners, the odds have to be astronomical to return to the winner's circle.

I thought the financial planning question was something like, "what do I do with all that money when I win?!"

Good luck to all--

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ryanash11:
[QB] I figured out what my ROI and NPV will be at the end of the year assuming I win my league this year. I have been playing in the NFFC the last two years (this is my third year). Of course you have to consider the opportunity costs of the time researching fantasy football and the stress of dealing with my wife during the season. However, I also place an intangible value on the enjoyment I got out of playing fantasy football. For this reason, I consider the opportunity costs and intangible entertainment value a wash. So for me it comes down to the actual cash flows:
Year 0 -$1,250 + -$100 = -$1,350
Year 1 -$1,250 + -$650 + -$250 = -$2,150
Year 2 -$1,250 + -650 + -$250 + 600 = -$1,550
Year 3 $5,000
Of course after I win my league:) at the end of this year, the NFFC won't wait clear till next August to pay me my $5,000, but to make it simple, I just assumed until next August. Also, my required return on capital is 10% a year, so my ROI is -.51% and NPV is -$829. EVEN if I win my league this year, my fantasy football endeavors aren't looking very promising from an financial perspective....ouch.

Ryan Ashcraft





Just curious Ryan, what's the +$600. at the end of year two? Also, you have to broaden your horizons, if you plan on winning your league, why not the whole thing? $100K into your HP 12C in year 3 will spit out a nice return!!
Also, more bad news, if you expect a positive 10% return, probably shouldn't discount the return when its negative.

Riff,

The positive $600 is my winnings from placing 2nd in a mid season satellite league last year. You are right, I should broaden my horizons and have more confidence in myself, but I have low self esteem. However, if I do happen to win the whole thing my ROI will jump to 272% and increase my NPV to $74,302. That sounds much better! As far as discounting the return when it is negative, I am not exactly sure what you meant by that. I simply used my cost of capital or required rate of return(10%) to determine NPV, not ROI.


Originally posted by RiFF:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ryanash11:
[QB] I figured out what my ROI and NPV will be at the end of the year assuming I win my league this year. I have been playing in the NFFC the last two years (this is my third year). Of course you have to consider the opportunity costs of the time researching fantasy football and the stress of dealing with my wife during the season. However, I also place an intangible value on the enjoyment I got out of playing fantasy football. For this reason, I consider the opportunity costs and intangible entertainment value a wash. So for me it comes down to the actual cash flows:
Year 0 -$1,250 + -$100 = -$1,350
Year 1 -$1,250 + -$650 + -$250 = -$2,150
Year 2 -$1,250 + -650 + -$250 + 600 = -$1,550
Year 3 $5,000
Of course after I win my league:) at the end of this year, the NFFC won't wait clear till next August to pay me my $5,000, but to make it simple, I just assumed until next August. Also, my required return on capital is 10% a year, so my ROI is -.51% and NPV is -$829. EVEN if I win my league this year, my fantasy football endeavors aren't looking very promising from an financial perspective....ouch.

Ryan Ashcraft





Just curious Ryan, what's the +$600. at the end of year two? Also, you have to broaden your horizons, if you plan on winning your league, why not the whole thing? $100K into your HP 12C in year 3 will spit out a nice return!!
Also, more bad news, if you expect a positive 10% return, probably shouldn't discount the return when its negative.

[ August 22, 2006, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: ryanash11 ]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ryanash11:
[QB] Riff,

The positive $600 is my winnings from placing 2nd in a mid season satellite league last year. You are right, I should broaden my horizons and have more confidence in myself, but I have low self esteem. However, if I do happen to win the whole thing my ROI will jump to 272% and increase my NPV to $74,302. That sounds much better! As far as discounting the return when it is negative, I am not exactly sure what you meant by that. I simply used my cost of capital or required rate of return(10%) to determine NPV, not ROI.


It really depends on what you are calculating. If you want IRR and NPV, you are correct.(I assume, I didn't run the numbers; but they look about right) But what the $829. represents is the NPV of those cash flows assuming a 10% discount rate. Which in essence says if you reduce your initial investment by $829. you will achieve your 10% hurdle rate.
Which is different than saying how much cash am I out of pocket at the end of year 3 if I wanted a 10% return on the cash I invested in FF.
But again, all problems are solved by winning the $100K; just ask GG. LOL