NFFC Message Boards

Let me first say I'm just having fun w/ words on the thread title.
But...

Why has 3RR been so quickly accepted here? I still don't know what advantage it removes. The argument that was made loud and clear was the "unfair advantage of drafting LT2 #1"

This begs the ?, did he go #1 in all leagues? And what about the 3 year history of the #1 selection in the NFFC as apposed to who actualy finished #1.

Year #1 of the NFFC wasn't Tiki Barber the highest scorer with Curtis MArtin also joining him in the Top 5?
They were both second round or later selections that year. (LT2 finished #2)

Year #2 of the NFFC wasn't Shaun Alexander the Top Scorer? With Larry Johnson #2?
SA was in the Top 3, but not an overwhelming #1, and LJ was a 4th rounder if you reached and lower if you were able to get him a bit cheaper.

Year #3 of the NFFC LT2 was the overwhelming #1 scorer, with Steven Jackson as #2 and Larry Johnson as #3. So 2 of the 3 concensus top picks made it this season. But Steven Jackson was somewhere between 5 and 9 in most drafts (guess on my part)

So in 3 season there has been a different Top Scorer, and in only 1 of the 3 seasons have two of the preseason favorites made it into the Top 3. And you would have had to have the Top Selection and taken LT2 to even get the advantage that 3RR is being implemented to avoid.

This is what got me thinking about it: Marty Schottenheimer is gone, Cam Cameron is gone and even Wade Phillips is gone.
So is LT2 still perceived to be the overwhelming #1? And what does 3RR accomplish if it HURTS the Top selections rather than help the lower draft spots?
You've become a socialized medicine of FF! Taking away from the "rich" to give to the "poor"
But no data compels you to do so in my opinion.
3RR is a reaction to the angry mobs failure.

So much has changed in football already, and its still February.
I'm afraid that 3RR may be a Zero Sum method of politics. No one can have more than the other, or more accuratley no one can be PERCEIVED to have more than another. Or the politicians will listen to the loudest criers and take it away.

What happens next season when some RB blows up and storms out of RD2 to take over the #1 spot, and it's a late Round 2 guy that is combined with 3RR players? You could end up with a monster team that should be "Zero Summed" the following season. And what would that be? A return to the standard Serpentine draft?

OK, let me have it, I know you want too...

3'

[ February 13, 2007, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: 3INTBOY/BFDFANTASY.com ]

No return, just a different set of KDS numbers you all can set in 2008. Lou, can you really imagine someone getting the No. 1 pick one year and saying, "Dammit, Tom screwed up my pick again. I HATE the No. 1 pick!!"

If that is ever the case, then 3RR was somewhat successful.

Not going to let you have it, just going to ask where your proof IS that 3RR is bad for the game? Until we have some data here there is no argument. Seems I recall the "other" league members coming over here to these boards the last 3 years and saying 14-team leagues were unfair to the bottom draft spots. Don't recall what draft spot Benetti had this year but the first 2 NFFC champs came from the extremes, #13 and #1.

So IMHO, this isn't a knee-jerk reaction to LT2. This is a way to make the draft different and more exciting for the players.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
Why has 3RR been so quickly accepted here? I still don't know what advantage it removes. 1) ohhh i don't know...maybe it's because the lucky bastards who get the early picks seem to make the playoffs more than the lower picks. this holds true in the nffc and wcoff. these are what some people call facts.

2) if you believe having an early third round pick is better than having a late third round pick, then 3RR should work. if you can't see how the early picks lose some value and the lower picks gain some value, then i'd keep your "thinking outloud comments" to yourself. seriously. comments like the one above could cost you valuable signups to the website you are constantly pimping.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
But no data compels you to do so in my opinion. 3RR is a reaction to the angry mobs failure.see answer #1 (given above). p.s. get some fact checkers on your payroll.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
What happens next season when some RB blows up and storms out of RD2 to take over the #1 spotthe point is lou, EVERYONE had a chance to grab the round 2 guy. shame on you if you didn't.

i got to tell you, a few people i know have given you praise for knowing your stuff, but IMO this post of yours is pure rubbish. bad form

[ February 13, 2007, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]

Originally posted by 3INTBOY/BFDFANTASY.com:
I still don't know what advantage it removes.
It removes the advantage that the tops picks have in both preparation and in-draft strategy.

There are no tough choices to make the old way with the top picks in rounds 2-5, especially 2 and 3.

With 3rr, top picks are now faced with the same very tough decisions ALL other owners have had for all these years.

Top picks go from top RB and Top WR/WR or Top WR and RB to WHO THE HELL DO I TAKE ROUND 2, because now I have to figure out who might be there at the end of round 3.

It has NOTHING to do with LT2, or anything else you posted.

From a game operator stand point, the only thing you can do is make it so that the PLAYING FIELD is as even as possible.

Perry's method of leveling out EVERY round is the panacea, but not practical for an event this size.

So 3rr does the trick. It's going to be a huge success and all of my customers love the idea also.

Please MB MOB... Please don't ruin this thread by taking the stance that Lou's post is in some way STUPID or irrelevant. It's ridiculous to suggest that.

This is the BIGGEST change our hobby has seen since the waiver wire went to Blind Bidding.

Lou's concern is valid, although I'm in the 3RR supporter camp.

I think Greg's original post sums it up nicely Lou:

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
"I've given the random draft slot selection process for fantasy football a lot of thought and there is no question in my mind that the top picks have ALWAYS been the most desired through the last 2+ decades. I can't remember a time when owners have said, "damn, if I could just get that 7th pick I know I can win this whole thing." It just doesn't happen.

As the only 14-team national fantasy football contest in the industry, we have had to prove to our participants that they can win from anywhere in the draft and it has been proven through the last three years that you can win from anywhere in the draft. Our first overall champion won from the 13th spot in 2004 and several Top 5 finishers last year drafted from the 4th and 9th spots. But we realized that owners wanted more control in their draft selections, so we implemented the Kentucky Derby Style system in 2006 to allow owners to choose their favorite draft spots AFTER we randomly selected the leagues.

Now it might be time for one more step towards equality. I'm seriously considering this 3rd Round Reversal (3RR) format for 2007 satellite leagues and maybe more. Basically, the only change that would be presented would be to reverse the draft order in the third round after going serpentine for the first two rounds and then going serpentine from rounds 4 through 18. Teamed with KDS, this would give owners a lot to evaluate during the off-season and would create some strategy in picking out their desired draft spots."

Gre's original 3RR post

[ February 13, 2007, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Team Legacy ]

Originally posted by Team Legacy:
Gre's original 3RR post who is Gre?

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
No return, just a different set of KDS numbers you all can set in 2008. Lou, can you really imagine someone getting the No. 1 pick one year and saying, "Dammit, Tom screwed up my pick again. I HATE the No. 1 pick!!"

If that is ever the case, then 3RR was somewhat successful. GG, et al.
I didn't say anywhere in my post that I was against 3RR. I asked if its a form a socializing the draft. Take from the rich to feed the poor.

There was another discussion about it and I left it to die at UFSs post, he is respected.

What I do recall is a strong argument being made that there is an unfair advantage to having the top pick. And what I am saying is that the Top pick DID have a great year in 2006. But not in other years, in the WCOFF and the NFFC there have been winners from all over the draft board.

GG-your statement that "shame on" everyone who passed on a guy who gets to round 2 is inaccurate, its about the CHANCE that guy blows up. There is no way to pre decide he is THE guy. Thats why trying to even the field could look good right now, but based on the only fact (change) each year, you could be solving a temporary FF problem.

As for some people telling you I "know my stuff" two things: tell them thank you for me and I would say I have done a fairly decent job of working hard to build that rep.

I don't worry about your swipes at my pimping, because this conversation isn't about what you think of anything other than 3RR.
It really just proves my point, one that you missed in the original post. Because you are too busy trying to slap people. YOU are the guy crying to socialize drafting and remove a PERCEIVED problem/advantage, one that you cannot overcome?

3'

[ February 13, 2007, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: 3INTBOY/BFDFANTASY.com ]

I think the point isn't that every Top 3 pick works out better than a bottom 3 pick. It's that there is a statistical edge to having a Top 3 pick over other picks over time. Not all of the Superstuds will pan out..but it's more likely one of them will than one from any other small grouping of picks. And given one of them pans out and that owner is getting a chance at a third very good player in 3rd round before other owners that never had a chance at his 1st round pick makes 3RR a pretty clear improvement. 1st pick in first back and forth of the snake is valuable enough to not let them pick in same order every subsequent back and forth of the snake. An improvement with no downside imo.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
What I do recall is a strong argument being made that there is an unfair advantage to having the top pick. And what I am saying is that the Top pick DID have a great year in 2006. But not in other years, in the WCOFF and the NFFC there have been winners from all over the draft board. look at the draft slots for teams making the playoffs in the nffc and wcoff. you are 100% bullshitting if you don't say there has been an advantage to drafting early.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
GG-your statement that "shame on" everyone who passed on a guy who gets to round 2 is inaccurate, its about the CHANCE that guy blows up. There is no way to pre decide he is THE guy. inaccurate??? it's spot on! if you had a chance to pick "the guy", but you passed on him. YOU ONLY HAVE YOURSELF TO BLAME! if you don't think you can peg "the guy", what are you doing playing this game? seriously.

Originally posted by 3INTBOY:
YOU are the guy crying to socialize drafting and remove a PERCEIVED problem/advantage, one that you cannot overcome?
maybe you haven't been around long enough...i'm the guy who wants BBDS. FREE-MARKET BABY!!

PERCEIVED problem/advantage??? again, you need to hire some fact checkers. the problem/advantage is REAL.

this game is hard enough to be successful at, let alone having a crummy draft slot as your foundation. thanks.