NFFC Message Boards

Okay, I've decided to hold off a bit in announcing our 2009 NFFC plans because I want to get as much feedback from our members as possible. This past year we based our guaranteed prizes on 390 teams for each main event at $1300 per team and we finished with 308 teams in the NFFC Classic and 252 teams in the NFFC Primetime. It would be foolish to shoot for 390 teams again next year and thus something will have to change.

Here's where I want your feedback and let's have some honest debate here and then I'll finalize everything towards the end of January. I already know which way I'm leaning, but I need a push to make it final.

1. Should we keep both main event structures with the 14-team NFFC Classic and 12-team NFFC Primetime? And should we keep the $1 million bonus for winning both main events as the carrot that makes playing both appealing?

Personally, I LOVED the doubleheaders on Draft Day and there's no question that the two differing contests are the way to go. But I want to hear from those who competed in both to get their feedback and see what we should do there, along with the $1 million bonus.

2. The cost of entry for both was $1300 this year and to be able to provide large enough grand prizes for both format, it would be tough to reduce those entry levels. I am leaning towards keeping both at $1300 again. What is your feeling about the separate contests at the $1300 price level? If you played both last year, do you think you'll do both this year?

3. My goal this year is to sell out both main events at reasonable levels, which means guaranteeing prizes at lower levels. If we guarantee the prize money for both main events based on 308 teams, there would be $29,400 less in prizes. Obviously, if we go above 308 the grand prize can be increased appropriately, but right now in this economy it would be foolish to just say "we'll do it again at the same levels and make it happen this time." Is it important to keep our league prizes where they are today and decrease the overall prizes to start with, or to go back to our 2004 level for the grand prizes and reduce the league prizes? Unfortunately, something will have to give, but if we can continue to grow beyond 308 (and 300 for NFFC Primetime) then we'll continue to grow those prizes.

4. We are set for Las Vegas, New York and Chicago for 2009. We are also set with MockDraftCentral.com to host online main event leagues through their site like we did this year, thus adding a fourth component and a chance to grow online. If we were to add a fourth NFFC city, which city makes the most sense? Will we lose our Florida participants if we just stick with three cities? We've looked into Dallas and Atlanta and nothing stands out yet from a hotel/venue standpoint, but I'm still interested in a fourth venue. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

5. A 12-team NFFC Online Championship at $350 per team will likely be added this year before our live events. We will shoot for 300 teams and provide a $20,000 grand prize. Should there be a tie-in with the main events for this prize or should we just keep everything separate for Online Championship winners? I'm interested in thoughts either way.

6. Auction Leagues, Draft Champions Leagues, Super Leagues and Ultimates will be under the same formats that we had this year, rotating the schedules so you can play both the 12-team and 14-team format on the same day in each city. Costs are the same: $1300 and $650.

7. I forgot to add this point and I will add it to the top thread now and to a separate thread on rules changes later: I am seriously considering adding third place league finishers to the Championship Round in 2009 for both main events. I did quick analysis of second and third place overall point totals and feel pretty strongly that these third place teams are just as strong as those top two teams and worthy of the shot at the $100,000 grand prize. Adding more teams to the Championship Round will be good all around. This year it would have added 20 teams in the NFFC Primetime (63 instead of 43) and 18 in the NFFC Classic (66 instead of 48). That still leaves us with only 25 percent of all teams in the NFFC Primetime and 21.4 percent of all teams in the NFFC Classic.

Our partnership with NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com will expand in 2009 as we learned a lot about how this all works during our first year together. We got off to a late start and will be unveiling a new web site in January with a look and feel that is very NBC Sports-like. And NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com will be even more involved on Draft Day in each city, so I'm excited about what we can do together in this second season.

That's a starting point. Don't feel like you have to post on all seven topics in one post. Feel free to pull out one and make some good points about it and let the ideas flow with our valued members. The economy and the market is tough and I'm going to guarantee levels in each contest that helps us sell out in 2009 and still makes the effort worthwhile for you. I think we have a great format going here and I think we can grow upon our 2008 numbers, but I'm going to be realistic about that growth. Help me make sure we do this the right way in 2009.

Thanks for a great 2008 and thanks for any feedback on our plans for 2009.

[ December 29, 2008, 11:09 AM: Message edited by: Greg Ambrosius ]

Another thing that will be addressed in 2009 is the message board. I don't want this to be debated, discussed, dissected or anything else on this thread as we can do that separately once I have all of my decisions in place, but I will not let the message boards ruin our contest like I think they had a chance to do this year. When valued customers think about leaving the NFFC because of the message boards, something has to be done and they will be done going forward. I guarantee that sanity will return to the NFFC boards in 2009.

I've always felt that this was YOUR playground and that Tom and I could allow you folks to police yourselves while we were busy trying to provide customer service for our players. But it's obvious that when the kids are bad, then the playground cops must be more active and we will be more active in 2009. Tom and I will not have the heavy hand of the law, but we also won't let anyone dominate the boards or allow personal attacks to go unattended. We believe our message boards are a great promotional vehicle and this year it seemed like a drunk driver was behind the wheel. It can't happen anymore.

We'll put together some standards for protocol and ask that our members adhere to them. And if they can't, there will be stipulations in place for what happens when rules are broken. I hate to do this and I saw how this didn't work on another message board, but I feel strongly that I MUST do this or we'll lose very valued customers as a result. It's time to stop letting the inmates run the asylum and that goes in a lot of different ways.

Again, this point doesn't need to be debated here, but I will ask for suggestions on a separate thread so that we can get the NFFC's boards back on track. I just wanted to post this here to let everyone know that this will be a very important topic that Tom and I will be dealing with in 2009. In fact, it's one of our top priorities going forward.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Okay, I've decided to hold off a bit in announcing our 2009 NFFC plans because I want to get as much feedback from our members as possible. This past year we based our guaranteed prizes on 390 teams for each main event at $1300 per team and we finished with 308 teams in the NFFC Classic and 252 teams in the NFFC Primetime. It would be foolish to shoot for 390 teams again next year and thus something will have to change.

Here's where I want your feedback and let's have some honest debate here and then I'll finalize everything towards the end of January. I already know which way I'm leaning, but I need a push to make it final.

1. Should we keep both main event structures with the 14-team NFFC Classic and 12-team NFFC Primetime? And should we keep the $1 million bonus for winning both main events as the carrot that makes playing both appealing?

Personally, I LOVED the doubleheaders on Draft Day and there's no question that the two differing contests are the way to go. But I want to hear from those who competed in both to get their feedback and see what we should do there, along with the $1 million bonus.

2. The cost of entry for both was $1300 this year and to be able to provide large enough grand prizes for both format, it would be tough to reduce those entry levels. I am leaning towards keeping both at $1300 again. What is your feeling about the separate contests at the $1300 price level? If you played both last year, do you think you'll do both this year?

3. My goal this year is to sell out both main events at reasonable levels, which means guaranteeing prizes at lower levels. If we guarantee the prize money for both main events based on 308 teams, there would be $29,400 less in prizes. Obviously, if we go above 308 the grand prize can be increased appropriately, but right now in this economy it would be foolish to just say "we'll do it again at the same levels and make it happen this time." Is it important to keep our league prizes where they are today and decrease the overall prizes to start with, or to go back to our 2004 level for the grand prizes and reduce the league prizes? Unfortunately, something will have to give, but if we can continue to grow beyond 308 (and 300 for NFFC Primetime) then we'll continue to grow those prizes.

4. We are set for Las Vegas, New York and Chicago for 2009. We are also set with MockDraftCentral.com to host online main event leagues through their site like we did this year, thus adding a fourth component and a chance to grow online. If we were to add a fourth NFFC city, which city makes the most sense? Will we lose our Florida participants if we just stick with three cities? We've looked into Dallas and Atlanta and nothing stands out yet from a hotel/venue standpoint, but I'm still interested in a fourth venue. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

5. A 12-team NFFC Online Championship at $350 per team will likely be added this year before our live events. We will shoot for 300 teams and provide a $20,000 grand prize. Should there be a tie-in with the main events for this prize or should we just keep everything separate for Online Championship winners? I'm interested in thoughts either way.

6. Auction Leagues, Draft Champions Leagues, Super Leagues and Ultimates will be under the same formats that we had this year, rotating the schedules so you can play both the 12-team and 14-team format on the same day in each city. Costs are the same: $1300 and $650.

Our partnership with NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com will expand in 2009 as we learned a lot about how this all works during our first year together. We got off to a late start and will be unveiling a new web site in January with a look and feel that is very NBC Sports-like. And NBC Sports/Rotoworld.com will be even more involved on Draft Day in each city, so I'm excited about what we can do together in this second season.

That's a starting point. Don't feel like you have to post on all six topics in one post. Feel free to pull out one and make some good points about it and let the ideas flow with our valued members. The economy and the market is tough and I'm going to guarantee levels in each contest that helps us sell out in 2009 and still makes the effort worthwhile for you. I think we have a great format going here and I think we can grow upon our 2008 numbers, but I'm going to be realistic about that growth. Help me make sure we do this the right way in 2009.

Thanks for a great 2008 and thanks for any feedback on our plans for 2009. 1) Honestly Greg, I will play in both, and the NFFC will be getting the majority of my $$$. This is the ONLY weekend I plan on traveling for fantasy this upcoming year.
That all being said, the WCOFF adding another "session", FFPC adding "another session", and Fantasy Jungle with a nice online contest shows that the 12 team market may be a bit saturated to expect growth in the 12 team format. What the NFFC has going for it is the weekend BEFORE Labor Day and of course the 14 team format. No other major contest offers 14 teams, and that is what makes you unique. If you are going to "downsize" one of the events it would HAVE TO be the 12 teamer IMO.

2) I'm fine with that, but fantasy football is a 2nd job to me, and I invest a lot to win a lot. The average player may not feel the same. The $1 million bonus is a "nice carrot", but the stars need to align to win that IMO. Again, the "new 12 teamer" would be the one to reduce he entry on (if you were going to do that) due to the numerous other 12 team events out there.

Could the 12 teamer be reduced to $700 with an obvious lower grand prize but STILL offer the $1 million bonus?

3) See above.

4) I'm fine with 3 cities. However, I have seen interest for Memphis along with the aforementioned Atlanta and Dallas. New Orleans (while it would be great!) cannot be considered due to the hurricanes IMO.

The problem I see with a new city is I think it woul be difficult to expect more than 2-3 leagues (ala Orlando) the first year or two. If you pick the right city, I think it could work.

5) I like the online to be SEPARATE from the Main event with it's own prize. I think this is a great way to reach out. The only catch is there is already other events (WCOFF and FJ) who offer a 12 team strictly online format. Any chance you make this a 14 team online event? Being the only 14 teamer at a MUCH reduced cost from the Main Event ($1,300 to $350 and NO travel costs).... I think that would be a gold mine!

Hell, if you make it 14 teams and 3 teams for an even $1,000......sign me up for a 3-pack!

6) The "Friday events" are a staple for NFFC weeekend, and keeping them at the same prize is a great move! These should have no problems selling out.

I agree that having Rotoworld "from the go" should only help the NFFC in the future!

Good luck Greg, and great to hear the news on how you are planning on changing the boards! Like someone said, the MB is the "window" of your business, and you gotta get people to like what they see in a few threads in order to get them to "come in".

[ December 29, 2008, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yep, understand
4.Money wise 3 sites is the way to go, correct? But I still think Dallas would be the best site if you want to go to a 4th site. Real Estate is way down in Florida not so much so in Dallas, just a thought.

John

Good points Billy and I appreciate each one. Yes, the 14-team Online Championship does have a nice ring to it, although it would be similar to our NFFC Satellite format. But you are correct, there are a lot of 12-team online championships already and going to a 14-team overall national championship online does make sense. I'll consider that for sure.

The thought of making one event $700 and the other $1300 has a good ring to it, but I'm not sure it's wise to "devalue" one format over the other. And in time, is it possible that the 12-team format becomes more popular than the 14-team format, even though we all love the uniqueness of the 14-team format? While there are a lot of 12-team national championships, there aren't any with 3RR/KDS.

But it's a worthy thought and one that I'd consider. Still, at that level the grand prize would be $50,000 or less and would that be incentive enough to travel and compete in that format? I'm not sure it would be and remember not everyone is going to do both. So that's the catch.

But all worthy points and all worth considering for 2009.

I forgot to add this point and I will add it to the top thread now and to a separate thread on rules changes later: I am seriously considering adding third place league finishers to the Championship Round in 2009 for both main events. I did quick analysis of second and third place overall point totals and feel pretty strongly that these third place teams are just as strong as those top two teams and worthy of the shot at the $100,000 grand prize. Adding more teams to the Championship Round will be good all around. This year it would have added 20 teams in the NFFC Primetime (63 instead of 43) and 18 in the NFFC Classic (66 instead of 48). That still leaves us with only 25 percent of all teams in the NFFC Primetime and 21.4 percent of all teams in the NFFC Classic.

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I forgot to add this point and I will add it to the top thread now and to a separate thread on rules changes later: I am seriously considering adding third place league finishers to the Championship Round in 2009 for both main events. I did quick analysis of second and third place overall point totals and feel pretty strongly that these third place teams are just as strong as those top two teams and worthy of the shot at the $100,000 grand prize. Adding more teams to the Championship Round will be good all around. This year it would have added 20 teams in the NFFC Primetime (63 instead of 43) and 18 in the NFFC Classic (66 instead of 48). That still leaves us with only 25 percent of all teams in the NFFC Primetime and 21.4 percent of all teams in the NFFC Classic. That's all I have.

John

Greg,
a couple observations...

The football gaming market is SAT-U-RATED! This new ffoc took in almost a mill in revenue and could double that for next season. While there is alot of competition for the customer's dollars more and more players seem to be digging deeper to play everything.

14 team / 3rr kds / 14tm-12 team doubleheader / live drafts the weekend before season starts... these are what make you unique. You should feel good that you staked a nice claim in a very competitive FF gaming market. It should only get better for you as the years go on.

I think it's important to work the synergies between the 2 contests. People are lured by that 1 mill carrot even if it is a pipe dream. I think it would be a good idea to add on/increase the prize for combined points thru week 16. Market a $10k 1st place/$5k 2nd/3rd place $2500. Get the people to play both.

An additional day option for the 12 teamer (Sunday evening ?) will give people more options for that contest and allow people to draft a 2nd team. Offer a 3(one 14 / two 12 team) team discount of $3750. Their best 12 team combined with their 14 teamer count for the combined prize $.

Give people options, give people carrots. They will spend their $.

FWIW -
back to baseball...

If not in Florida, I'd suggest you hold off on a 4th city for the time being. Not good trying to develop a new market in a down economy.

As for "devaluing" the 12-teamer by going to $600-700, I disagree. I think there is value in a live Main Event in that price range, especially when it's in conjunction with another live event.

If it were my money, I'd do away with promoting the dual-winner $1MM bonus and promote more heavily the combined event standings results.

I found myself looking at the combined standings as often as the overall standings for each event.

The problem I see with the $1MM bonus is that it loses it's appeal to 80%+ of your participants after about 10 weeks of the season.