Refunds On Other High Stakes Games

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri May 28, 2004 8:41 am

The fantasy football industry has no fewer than a dozen high-stakes contests this year with at least seven live drafts. Is that too many? The market will decide that and you, the fantasy football enthusiast, will decide where to spend your money. If a competing event/contest looks better than the NFFC, I respect your opinion to go with that competing company.

You will never see me try to win your allegience by pointing out flaws in another game. This market is big enough for all of these contests if they're run right and we all take care of our customers with first-class service. But please be aware of the fine print in some of these contests.

I won't even name this high-stakes contest, but it is a live event the same weekend as the NFFC and the Cancellation Notice really scares me. Should this contest be cancelled for any reason here is what the rules say happens:

CANCELLATION
Your entry fee is non refundable.

Please don't let someone else play with your money that way. Legally, as a game operator you have only two options: 1) Pay out as advertised no matter how many teams you acquire and you cannot have the payout based on the number of teams; or 2) Refund everyone's money. Having a non-refundable policy doesn't make sense for the consumer at all, especially with so many other options available.

That's certainly not our policy and in fact we're not even processing anyone's credit cards until Aug. 1. Make a wise decision when choosing your fantasy games and PLEASE read the fine print.

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Fri May 28, 2004 11:19 am

Suffice it to say, all of us will agree that the high stakes arena will not see 12 events go off, I strongly question more than half making it...at least you know yours is a go Greg!

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Fri May 28, 2004 5:32 pm

Greg, truth is you could email a revised prize structure and have everybody either sign and return (fax works well) or send refunds to those that no longer want to play. Obviously an event that did such a thing would contact it's players in advance to get a sense of how many would stay.

Personally, I'm not adverse to smaller events with "smaller" payouts that turn out to have better pot odds. I suspect that will be the case this year for some of the events. My prediction is that WCOFF will fill (should happen soon). NFBC will get a lot of overflow and go off with a smaller event which might require signing off on a modified grand prize. I do think that NFFC has a chance of getting a big enough sign up to maintain its prize structure, but it will be a struggle.

The million dollar event will fold (768 @ $2600 is not going to happen.

The Connecticut event will fold. Let me think, travel to Connecticut ot travel to Vegas? Duh. If I live close where do I live? In NY or NJ, right? So I'm going to the Hilton and save a long drive.

The FF Tournament of Champions has a unique format that will attract many of the players in WCOFF and NFFC. I can't see them getting 600 players though, but I bet that they will go off with a smaller contest.

There is also a less ambitious online event that many of the live event players will double up and join also. My prediction is that it will take place.

Kahuna has the crazy non-returnable thing. They say they will draft for missing teams and sell those teams on the internet at the full price. I can't imagine how that will all work out but that would seem to favor those not entering but then trying to buy a good team after the draft. How this can be allowed is a little confusing.

Bottom line, it's important that the game you choose goes off. I like the fact that NFFC is paying for space so has fixed costs to cover. The track record from NFBC convinced me they will do what they have to do to have a game.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Sat May 29, 2004 4:44 am

Scott, ours is definitely a go. We are already paying for the space in three cities, so there's definitely going to be three parties!!! Now it's filling up the dance card for each party, which I'm confident we'll achieve. Like baseball, we'll work hard and be available to answer questions at all times. We'll get it done and run a first-class event, guaranteed. I like our chances of getting a lot of people in New York and Chicago, and of course Las Vegas sells itself.

Jersey Paul, you are an astutue man. WCOFF deserves a great tip of the hat from me and everyone else in the industry. They have done a GREAT job and should have 672 spots filled up this weekend. That's amazing. I hope we are a great alternative to those people who are looking for a competitive high-stakes game the weekend before WCOFF or even for another game for WCOFF participants the week before. We'll do everything we can to reach our goal of 602 teams and even if we fall short, like we did in baseball, I think people can trust in us that we'll do the right thing and still make this event happen.

It will be a crazy season of high-stakes games, but I just want everyone to make the right decision and not be left out in the cold when the big money games are being played. I guarantee we'll be around come Sept. 3-4. See you at the drafts!!!

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 11:53 am

I just wanted to add a few things regarding high stakes events.

The WCOFF has paved the way for many high stakes ventures. We are not a start up but rather have been doing live drafts in Las Vegas the last six years.

Each event offers something different and in fact many will take place this year at the same time and in this case in the same city.

Like JerseyPaul stated, it is best to read the rules completely and then look at the people that run the event as well as track record.

With that in mind our event the Kahuna Sports Fantasy Football Frenzy will take place. Will we have 408 people to fill it up, most likely based on signups already.

Will Greg get his event filled up, probably as he has a solid track record as well.

So, I just wanted those of you here to know who we are and what we are about and we are not a fly by night operation.

As for cancellations, our event will fully refund all monies collected should it get cancelled. Same holds true for Greg's game if you read the rules.

"no money will be refunded to participants or co-managers unless the National Fantasy Football Championship is canceled."

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 12:21 pm

Greg - I've done the WCOFF and last year a draft in Vegas called The Draft 2003. Both were great and run well. This year I am doing your baseball event and mst say you did a fantastic job getting the teams together and answering all our questions.

As a result, and because I like the WCOFF event, this year I'm playing 2. NYC for your event one week and off to Vegas for the WCOFF the following week. I can hardly wait (especially since 5 of my baseball players are on the DL and one in AAA (KIM))....

See you in September!

Pete

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 2:57 am

James, I appreciate the post and the private e-mail you sent. As a fellow FSTA member, I trust you will run a first-class event and do everything possible to give the customer what they are paying for. As you stated, you already have a track history of putting on live drafts and this latest venture is just a natural progression for your company.

That being said, as a fellow FSTA member I also trust that you will eliminate the No Refund policy on your cancellation notice within your rules. You stated to me that you will be doing that and I'm glad to hear that. No contest should have a No Refund policy as it has the potential to really give our industry a black eye. I trust it was just an oversight, but if we helped to bring this to your attention I'm glad.

I wish Kahuna Sports and all of the other high-stakes events good luck this year as this industry is big enough for all of the good contests/events to succeed. If we take care of our customers and offer good contests, we can succeed. Again, good luck to you and I'll see you at the Fantasy Sports Trade Conference Sept. 1-2 at the Flamingo.

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:06 am

Greg, thanks for leaving my post and allowing those here to read my response.

I wish you and those that play with you the best. I wish there were a way we could schedule our draft times to allow folks from each other to take in both events if they wish.

Our drafts start at 10:00 AM on Saturday and after that we have a No Limit Poker Tournament at Binion's.

Anyway, good luck and good luck to those of you playing in Greg's game.

Take care everyone.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:00 am

Are you guys gonna... like... hug or something?

Sorry, couldn't resist.. the warm and fuzzy feelings just overpowered me as I felt a synergy there - the bonds between fellow gamers and the internet...

I could write a book on fantasy gaming internet relationships - and you guys would take up a whole chapter

lol - glad to hear we're all getting along and that there isn't someone out there running no refunds.

Dyv

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:23 pm

Dyv, I just laughed when I read it. Greg and I know each other from our days at the Fantasy Insights Fantasy Expo back in 1998 in Vegas.

I can't wait to read your book once it's published.

Take care and good luck in the NFFC.