Leave the NFFC AS IS

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:55 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Money:
It addresses the so called "Chum Chum" club perception. There are many who believe that only a select number of players opinions matter to the NFFC. These concerns are usually posted by the newest members.

The fact that this comes up each year suggests that there is something to the perception.Joe, I think it also suggests people aren't very familiar with our history. I don't want to speak for Greg but one reason why I typically don't respond to the "Chum Chum Club" comments is because nothing could be further from the truth. Greg and I have made a number of changes over the years to the event and many of those changes have come from suggestions made by a large segment of our participants, not just a select few. The fact we're sending out surveys to our first-time players and to all of our players (you guys will see that one soon) is another example of how we want to hear from everyone, not simply a select few.

It is unfortunate if people believe the silly "Chum Chum Club" actually exists. Perhaps Greg and I need to work harder to dispel that belief since it has no connection to reality in our eyes. But trust me when I say all opinions are always welcome. Greg and I may not agree with all of them but we want to hear what everyone thinks about all we have to offer, whether you're a charter member or playing in the NFFC for the first time this year. [/QUOTE]i'm sorry but i don't really believe that post totally. i have been trying to stay away from the boards but this one has brought me back for a quickie.

playoffs has been brought up several times this year and has been torn down by several members on the nffc family "vets" and chum chum members. just take a look back at some of the older threads. now it was brought up again by one of the so called chum chum members and was welcomed with open arms.

things like that leave a bad taste in a new owner/players mouth.

i like the fact that greg has addressed mine and other new players thoughts on this topic but for me it is too little too late.

have a good season all....good luck in the playoffs

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:57 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:

And my point about "hang around a bit" wasn't to suggest that newcomers' opinions don't matter. But opinions without experience are often hollow, IMO.
. Sandman, how do you know what Hollywood's background is, maybe he has played in leagues that are a similar format to the NFFC's? Maybe he has had plenty of experience in fantasy football and just missing the play-offs?

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:59 am

gambler, I'm sorry if you don't believe my post but it's 100 percent correct. Again, if Greg and I need to do a better job to dispel the myth (and it is a myth) that we only cater to a select group of people than we will do that going forward. Those with knowledge of our history know this belief is completely false but if we have to do more to dispel the myth than that's what we're going to do.

Also, nothing has been decided about our plans for 2012. No one should believe that's the case. We are going to send out another survey to all of our players and the feedback you provide is very valuable, as was the feedback provided by our first-time players in our earlier survey. We don't take these things lightly and it's not just lip service. Again, one of the things the NFFC has done well in my opinion since Day 1 is listen to what our players have to say. As I said previously we may not always agree with what people suggest but we definitely will listen. Our history is strong proof of that.

[ December 05, 2011, 10:00 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:18 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:

And my point about "hang around a bit" wasn't to suggest that newcomers' opinions don't matter. But opinions without experience are often hollow, IMO.
. Sandman, how do you know what Hollywood's background is, maybe he has played in leagues that are a similar format to the NFFC's? Maybe he has had plenty of experience in fantasy football and just missing the play-offs? [/QUOTE]I don't. That's why I said "I'm not sure how long the original poster has been here but I'm guessing first year." I was merely trying to understand if the poster had any experience with playing in leagues where so few teams make the playoffs. IMO, their opinion would carry more weight if they had. But let's not forget what else I said: the poster invited confrontation and got it. Tone down the arrogance a bit and maybe the discussion could stay more cordial.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:35 am

Originally posted by RedRyder:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

I don't think this will be that tough a call for me and Tom. So a decision has been made? Awesome, hope my survey opinions counted. Oh, wait, I wasn't asked to take a survey.

[/QUOTE]No need for the sad face Jules. Survey to all NFFC members will go out this week. It includes 20 basic questions about the event, the live drafts, demographic info. A survey asking for input on the format will go out most likely after the season is complete. I don't have my mind made up exactly the route I'm going, but I certainly know how much we need to tweak and how much we don't need to bulldoze.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for wanting to take a survey. It's coming your way via email this week.

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:33 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by RedRyder:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:

And my point about "hang around a bit" wasn't to suggest that newcomers' opinions don't matter. But opinions without experience are often hollow, IMO.
. Sandman, how do you know what Hollywood's background is, maybe he has played in leagues that are a similar format to the NFFC's? Maybe he has had plenty of experience in fantasy football and just missing the play-offs? [/QUOTE]I don't. That's why I said "I'm not sure how long the original poster has been here but I'm guessing first year." I was merely trying to understand if the poster had any experience with playing in leagues where so few teams make the playoffs. IMO, their opinion would carry more weight if they had. But let's not forget what else I said: the poster invited confrontation and got it. Tone down the arrogance a bit and maybe the discussion could stay more cordial. [/QUOTE]I just don't think it matters if Hollywood has played in the NFFC one year or six, he shared his opinion, good for him. And for all we know he has played in other contest or leagues with similar play-off scenarios.

As far as toning down the arrogance, I didn't really see it as an arrogant post. I could actually see you getting as upset as you are if he singled you out as one of the whiners (and whatever else he wrote), but I don't recall seeing you called out.

RedRyder · Post by **RedRyder** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:35 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by RedRyder:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:

I don't think this will be that tough a call for me and Tom. So a decision has been made? Awesome, hope my survey opinions counted. Oh, wait, I wasn't asked to take a survey.

[/QUOTE]No need for the sad face Jules. Survey to all NFFC members will go out this week. It includes 20 basic questions about the event, the live drafts, demographic info. A survey asking for input on the format will go out most likely after the season is complete. I don't have my mind made up exactly the route I'm going, but I certainly know how much we need to tweak and how much we don't need to bulldoze.

Hope that helps.

Thanks for wanting to take a survey. It's coming your way via email this week. [/QUOTE]Point being, and obviously it is your business to run how you see fit, but I would have like to see a survey go out to ALL NFFCers first, then broken down into Year One players, 12 team players, etc.

I am glad after banging the drum for four years you have finally sent out a survey

See Gambler, they don't always listen to the Chum Chum Club

ForLoveOfTheGame · Post by **ForLoveOfTheGame** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:14 am

Glenneration X: I’ve agreed with a lot of your posts but lets be honest man, if you have that many injuries on a team it just isn’t going to be your year unless you drafted insanely well / lucky in the later rounds. If we’re going to try and keep teams involved who have that many injuries well then we’re going to have to send almost everyone to the playoffs. I’ve got a team that went like this:
1 Round) Andre Johnson 2) Darren McFadden 4) Jahvid Best 5) Mario Manningham 7) Danny Amendola and I’m going to finish just barely out of 2nd, about 20 - 30 points back. I’m not going to go to the playoffs but I wasn’t one of the best teams. It sucks but injuries are a part of the game (mostly unlucky part but you should KNOW the risk you’re taking with some guys, like McFadden and Best for example from my team). I just don’t see any way to let everyone with tons of injuries to stay involved, I mean can’t at least 3 or so teams from every league say they were killed by injuries?
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Frozen Tundra: We can eliminate the LUCK of who gets to play the deadbeat owners late in the season by just changing to all play. Then if a team starts 3 hurt guys we all have that advantage not just one lucky owner. I guess people aren’t for this though because it removes a HUGE portion of the luck factor (which is what “keeps more teams in the hunt”)
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From KJ: “There is a lot of luck involved in every aspect of this game, and if you, Jared and Hollywood can't see that you're fooling yourselves”

Are you even reading my posts? I talk about the luck factor all the time. I’m ALLLLL against the luck, want it taken out as much as possible! The biggest LUCK part is HEAD TO HEAD! And never have I argued to totally remove it, just have said NOT to add MORE head to head teams to playoffs or championship round, one is plenty
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Also from KJ: “Often times the difference between first and fourth can be a matter of a few points, maybe even a single play. I'd rather see more teams fight it out in the playoffs rather than arbitrarily reward the team that may have been luckiest early in the season.”

Can’t this be said about any of the standings? If we extend it to 4 teams make the playoffs what happens when the fourth seed beat seeds 5 and 6 by two and four points? Doesn’t that apply there too? You have to draw a cut off somewhere and there are ALWAYS going to be teams that just missed out
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KJ you said: “If the best team over 13 weeks is best over the full 16 weeks it won't matter that they have to beat a couple more teams in the playoffs. Baseball goes 26 weeks, if you happen to be leading after the first 16 weeks you don't get jack. If you can't finish, you can't cash.”

Baseball there isn’t a reset of scoring either. There also isn’t the luck of head to head. It would be like playing only total points in football for 16 weeks, no championship round (which I’d be all for!). Baseball doesn’t reward the best team over the final 3 weeks like football does, it’s the best team over the whole year (maybe something that should be looked at)
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Double G: “IF i had a truly dominating season, i don't want to see some slightly above average team (who should have never made the playoffs), suddenly have a wicked 3 final weeks and win the 100K. might as well play slot machines. seriously.”

This completely sums it up! Why should an average team have a shot at the grand prize? That’s robbery!

KenGill · Post by **KenGill** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:41 pm

The playoffs need to be reserved for the best teams. One of the posters had a good idea about making each week worth two wins total. One win for head to head, another if you finish in the top half of points. That is an excellent suggestion. Still makes the head to head play matter, but not quite as much as it does now. Booyah!

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 12:12 am

Originally posted by ForLoveOfTheGame:
This completely sums it up! Why should an average team have a shot at the grand prize? That’s robbery! Agreed. However, when only 5 or 6 teams are still alive for any sort of meaningful prize as of Columbus Day, it's time to seriously consider some changes to the format. There are ways to accomplish that without giving everyone a shot at the grand prize -- that's the heart of what's being proposed here.