Let's Compare High-Stakes Fantasy Football Contests

RC Techies · Post by **RC Techies** » Thu May 19, 2011 3:32 am

I played in the FFPC, NFFC and the Wcoff the last three years. I had every plans of doing so again until the Wcoff ran into trouble. The ROI is not what led me to play all three (four if you count playing both NFFC contests) contests. I play for the fun of it. If I win, all the better. With that said, I want to know that I will be paid if I win. That leaves one contest out.

The NFFC is a great contest because of Tom and Greg. If you have a question you can count on getting an answer quickly. I don't worry about getting paid as I trust Tom and Greg. Payouts are quick. The same is true of the FFPC. Alex and Dave also run a first rate competition and give the same great service.

I won't be playing in the Wcoff this year. First, I simply don't trust them to pay their customers. Second, the customer service is horrible. Does that decision make me feel better. No. A couple of years ago I finished fourth overall and was that close to winning the entire contest. Once you have been that close, you keep wanting to go back to see if you can do better. I have to keep reminding myself of why I won't be playing the Wcoff this year.

So where is my money going. In the past I only purchased one main event team. I am thinking this year that I will purchase an extra main event team. Right now, I am leaning to the FFPC but only because I was the league champion last year and if I repeat, then I win a free entry. This will be the last year they offer that prize.

When somebody asks me which contest to enter, I push both the NFFC and the FFPC. Each are different in their scoring and how they handle the postseason. I don't think anyone can go wrong playing either.

John

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Thu May 19, 2011 4:52 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Nice analysis Glenn. Very fair and noteworthy analysis for consumers. Honest and balanced coverage, like Fox News proclaims!!

..and NBC/CBS/ABC/MSNBC/CNN are honest and balanced?

Great topic Greg and thanks to you and the "King" for all the number crunching. There's much to analyze to make the good choices

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:04 am

Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Nice analysis Glenn. Very fair and noteworthy analysis for consumers. Honest and balanced coverage, like Fox News proclaims!!

..and NBC/CBS/ABC/MSNBC/CNN are honest and balanced?

Great topic Greg and thanks to you and the "King" for all the number crunching. There's much to analyze to make the good choices [/QUOTE]My Fair and Balanced reference to Fox News was tongue-in-cheek. That's their slogan and I guess if you lean FAAAAAAAAARR to the right, it's very fair and balanced.

But Glenn's analysis was definitely down the middle.

It's fair to talk about the competition and our contests in a professional way and that's what we're doing here. Heck, it helps me to compare our contests to them internally just to make sure we're doing all we can to make our contests the best. Sometimes that involves the prize payouts, sometimes that involves the league formats, sometimes that involves the side costs for Events Fees and co-managers, sometimes it involves the grand prize.

That's all we're doing here and I think our smart customers will participate in the discussion and use the information to make smart decisions in 2011.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:07 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Another important consideration with HSFF main events is the maximum possible league prize (as a multiple of the entry fee). Here's what I show:

NFFC Classic
$1,400 entry fee
$5,000 maximum league prize
3.6x

NFFC Primetime
$1,400 entry fee
$5,000 maximum league prize
3.6x

WCOFF
$1,850 entry fee
$8,000 maximum league prize
4.3x

FFPC
$1,550 entry fee
$6,000 maximum league prize
3.9x

By this, it appears that the NFFC is the worst deal. However, based on the playoff systems in each event, the NFFC has the easiest path to achieve the maximum league prize. If you're dominating the league through 11 weeks (best record and most points in the league), then have a bad Week 12, you're barely getting your money back in the FFPC ($2,000 or $2,500 vs. $1,550 entry fee) and WCOFF ($2,500 or $3,000 vs. $1,850 entry fee). In the NFFC, you're still in the driver's seat for the full $5,000 prize. It's a huge deal to me, and will definitely impact my main event entries. This is good work Glenn and as you know we've always tried to have a 4x payout to first in our Main Events. We originally started with a $1250 price point and $5,000 for first place, but have increased the entry fees for both the Classic and Primetime in order to lower the number of guaranteed teams while still keeping the $100,000 grand prize. If we get above our stated goals I think it will be important for us to add to the league prizes first and foremost. You saw that in the NFBC where we eventually made the league prizes: $5,600 for first, $2,800 for second and $1,400 for third. That's a place I'd like to go in the Classic someday so that we continue the 4x, 2x, 1x that we had before the price increase. But we need to get beyond a sellout first for that to happen.

But all good analysis and duly noted here.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 19, 2011 5:26 am

One more point I'd like to make involves the grand prize for our Main Events and I look forward to your feedback there, too. I think most people know that I like the $100,000 carrot, but as we grow our participation levels beyond our stated goals that isn't the first area of prizes that I'll grow. I applaud any contest that can double the number of their teams so that basically one owner can earn an additional $100,000, but if we double our number of teams I'm pretty sure our grand prize won't double. I think WCOFF made that mistake when they went from a $200,000 grand prize to a $300,000 grand prize and I don't want to make the same over-promised mistake.

As I stated above, if we get above our stated goals we'll first improve the league prizes so that once again we can get to 4x, 2x, 1x. Improving first place within each league even more would be ideal and something to consider with expanded growth. Shoring up second through 10th overall and growing the number of overall prizes would be next with future growth, as we did in the NFBC when we grew from a sellout of 300 teams to a sellout of 435 teams. And once we'd have those areas shored up, I'd probably go to $125,000 with the grand prize and shore up the other overall prizes again before reaching to $150,000.

But let's reach our goals first and then hope to have these decisions to make in late August and early September. I think you can still be the biggest and the best contest without that one biggest carrot. I think fantasy players have matured to the point where they know the reachable goals are the league prizes and many of the overall prizes, but that one carrot is a once-in-a-lifetime shot. And even the current six-figure prize is solid enough to pursue.

Maybe I'm wrong and you can let me know. But right now I think it makes sense to stay conservative and grow all around rather than from the very top down. Just my two cents.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:43 am

Increase the league prizes first and foremost. Once that's achieved, raise the overall prizes 2-10, leave the top prize where it is until the league prizes and balance of overall prizes fall more in line with the big winner.

I don't think jumping to $125K overall winner will have much of an effect at all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu May 19, 2011 7:30 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
Increase the league prizes first and foremost. Once that's achieved, raise the overall prizes 2-10, leave the top prize where it is until the league prizes and balance of overall prizes fall more in line with the big winner.

I don't think jumping to $125K overall winner will have much of an effect at all. All good points Glenn. As for the $125,000, I'm just stating that at some point as signups continue to grow we will increase the grand prize beyond $100,000, but we'll do it incrementally with the other overall prizes rather than just expand the one grand prize to make one more person happy. That's the plan unless a wave of folks tell me differently.

urmomz · Post by **urmomz** » Thu May 19, 2011 6:08 pm

I'm unfamiliar with the other HSFF Leagues, but what intrigues me about the NFFC, besides the overall grand prize, is the unique concept of KDS & 3RR. Do these other HSFF Leagues offer anything similar?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Fri May 20, 2011 2:22 am

Originally posted by JerseyYo:
I'm unfamiliar with the other HSFF Leagues, but what intrigues me about the NFFC, besides the overall grand prize, is the unique concept of KDS & 3RR. Do these other HSFF Leagues offer anything similar? No, the NFFC is the only contest in the industry that I know of that offers KDS and 3RR. Thanks for pointing that out because I forgot to add that. I'll do that now.

Both ideas came from our customers, who wanted a little more say in their draft spots and more balance in the 14-team format. Third Round Reversal definitely allows more balance among all 14 teams and has proven to be a solid addition in the 12-team format, but the real key is adding KDS to 3RR. This allows the owners to strategize on where they can win from and to pick their preferred draft spots. The combination of 3RR and KDS has been a winning combination for NFFC owners and it's unlikely any other HSFF contest will ever copy what we have here.

Thanks for remembering this.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:21 am

With so many people calling and checking out the boards to find out more about what we offer this seems like a good thread to bump up so folks can see. Obviously, one event's payouts are no longer relevant but there is still some great information in here that hopefully will help folks make informed decisions about where they want to play play this year.

[ August 17, 2011, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]