R.I.P. WCOFF

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:01 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
John, to follow up on Greg's post - Fanball was owned by Liberty Media, a publicly traded company. It would have been extremely easy for someone to find out what ownership percentage, if any, Fanball had with FFOC at that time. Like Greg said, if you have facts which show Liberty had a 25% ownership share of FFOC beyond the alleged statements of Ryan Houston in a bar perhaps you would like to share them with us. Since you asked.

Ryan Houston took You,me and a couple of other players out right after the Main draft.
I asked Ryan does Fanball own FFOC.
Ryan said 'Yes'. I asked do they own the whole thing or just a part of it? Ryan said 1/4.

I than said Tom(you were sitting right across from me) did you know that? You said 'No'. I said wow that is good to hear, You said yes that should make the players feel more at easy. Now I do beleive you would not have know this, you were just a worker for Fanball and Ryan was your Boss and a upper management person.

I than the next day called Greg and asked Greg the same thing and he responsed the same way as you. Again Greg was just a worker.

Stan than posted that indeed Fanball owned 25% stake in FFOC.

Greg asked' .The overall winner gets paid just like the contest stated. Do you think he would be silent if he wasn't getting paid. But you already knew that, right John?'

NO, as far as I know that person was not paid and he of course would not post saying that he was not paid. Greg again you were just a worker and have no insight or any knowledge that he was paid. But you already knew that, right Greg?

So again thanks for allowing me to go over what happen and I hope this time things are clearer now. I was correct about WCOFF and FFOC(Fanball) no facts just what happen.

[ November 30, 2011, 08:07 AM: Message edited by: Raiders ]

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:20 am

John, I'm well aware I was at that dinner. However - and this is extremely important so please pay close attention - at NO TIME did I hear Ryan say anything about FFOC nor did I talk about that. Why am I shouting? Because I have been already been called a liar before, something I did not appreciate at the time. I won't be particularly happy if someone makes that accusation again. You need to STOP passing off these statements about what you believe I said as facts when they are not. This is EXACTLY what Greg and I have been talking about.

I do not know if Ryan said anything about FFOC or Fanball having any ownership. Perhaps he did and I didn't hear it. There were several of us at the table and we talked about a large number of subjects that night. I was not privy to every word that was said and every discussion that came up. But at no time that night did I engage or hear any discussions about FFOC and/or what Fanball's role with that event was. That is the truth and quite honestly John, I'm not very happy that you and others have told people otherwise.

Once again I will make this very clear for you - Liberty Media was a publicly owned company so finding out whether they had any ownership of FFOC would have been an extremely easy thing to do - especially for anyone who claims to simply have the players' best interests at heart. It is quite interesting that no one made any attempt to do that back then. I guess trashing the NFFC and anything Fanball and/or Houston related was a far easier and more gratifying exercise for them to take part in.

[ November 30, 2011, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:25 am

John, continue to believe what you want. Your one source is Ryan bragging at a bar on the night of the NFFC draft. You definitely didn't call me the next day because I was in Las Vegas running the NFFC drafts when you were in New York. But just a minor detail, I'm sure. At no point did Stan ever state that Fanball owned 25%. He did make a post that said there were four owners, but you obviously are extrapolating the percentages. Do you think Stan owned as much as the two other owners? No. Nor is your extrapolation of the supposed fourth owner be correct. But again, a minor detail, right John?

And remember, Stan was asked to take that post down immediately and he did. He already explained his position on our boards in August. Liberty Sports Interactive did not own any part of FFOC no matter what you heard in a bar. But carry on.

As far as you know, that winner was or wasn't paid, but you keep asking as if he wasn't. I know even as an employee because I've talked to people who pay him. It's called asking for facts, something you haven't done.

Now go to another board that enjoys your wild speculations. It's not wanted here. You've ended with the perfect analogy for you: "NO FACTS."

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:29 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
John, I'm well aware I was at that dinner. However - and this is extremely important so please pay close attention - at NO TIME did I hear Ryan say anything about FFOC nor did I talk about that. Why am I shouting? Because I have been already been called a liar before, something I did not appreciate at the time. I won't be particularly happy if someone makes that accusation again. You need to STOP passing off these statements about what you believe I said as facts when they are not. This is EXACTLY what Greg and I have been talking about.

I do not know if Ryan said anything about FFOC or Fanball having any ownership. Perhaps he did and I didn't hear it. There were several of us at the table and we talked about a large number of subjects that night. I was not privy to every word that was said and every discussion that came up. But at no time that night did I engage or hear any discussions about FFOC and/or what Fanball's role with that event was. That is the truth and quite honestly John, I'm not very happy that you and others have told people otherwise.

Once again I will make this very clear for you - Liberty Media was a publicly owned company so finding out whether they had any ownership of FFOC would have been an extremely easy thing to do - especially for anyone who claims to simply have the players' best interests at heart. It is quite interesting that no one made any attempt to do that back then. I guess trashing the NFFC and anything Fanball and/or Houston related was a far easier and more gratifying exercise for them to take part in. I say no more. Let the rest judge for themselfs.

Of corse go over what I wrote above and you will see I never bought up Fanball/FFOC until Greg did.

To me that was a dead subject. That's very interesting,No!

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:31 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
John, continue to believe what you want. Your one source is Ryan bragging at a bar on the night of the NFFC draft. You definitely didn't call me the next day because I was in Las Vegas running the NFFC drafts when you were in New York. But just a minor detail, I'm sure. At no point did Stan ever state that Fanball owned 25%. He did make a post that said there were four owners, but you obviously are extrapolating the percentages. Do you think Stan owned as much as the two other owners? No. Nor is your extrapolation of the supposed fourth owner be correct. But again, a minor detail, right John?

And remember, Stan was asked to take that post down immediately and he did. He already explained his position on our boards in August. Liberty Sports Interactive did not own any part of FFOC no matter what you heard in a bar. But carry on.

As far as you know, that winner was or wasn't paid, but you keep asking as if he wasn't. I know even as an employee because I've talked to people who pay him. It's called asking for facts, something you haven't done.

Now go to another board that enjoys your wild speculations. It's not wanted here. You've ended with the perfect analogy for you: "NO FACTS." So Stan lied,

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:38 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
I say no more. I think that would be a very prudent course of action, John. Trust me, I don't take very kindly to having people spreading untruths about me and what I know and what I said. I didn't appreciate it last year when you and others were doing it and I don't appreciate it now.

The fact you have now twice dodged my point about how easy it would've been for you or anyone to find out whether Ryan's alleged statements were indeed the truth is quite revealing. Again, Greg and I have asked for facts which should be extremely easy to produce if they indeed exist. Unfortunately, there has been precious little interest in finding out what really was going on with FFOC last year. That was evident then and based on your posts in this thread it's definitely still the case now.

So yes, unless you have some actual facts to present to this discussion instead of hearsay and alleged statements, I think your best course of action would indeed be to "say no more."

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 2:40 am

Greg wrote: 'John, continue to believe what you want. Your one source is Ryan bragging at a bar on the night of the NFFC draft. You definitely didn't call me the next day because I was in Las Vegas running the NFFC drafts when you were in New York. But just a minor detail, I'm sure. At no point did Stan ever state that Fanball owned 25%. He did make a post that said there were four owners, but you obviously are extrapolating the percentages. Do you think Stan owned as much as the two other owners? No. Nor is your extrapolation of the supposed fourth owner be correct. But again, a minor detail, right John?

And remember, Stan was asked to take that post down immediately and he did. He already explained his position on our boards in August. Liberty Sports Interactive did not own any part of FFOC no matter what you heard in a bar. But carry on.

As far as you know, that winner was or wasn't paid, but you keep asking as if he wasn't. I know even as an employee because I've talked to people who pay him. It's called asking for facts, something you haven't done.

Now go to another board that enjoys your wild speculations. It's not wanted here. You've ended with the perfect analogy for you: "NO FACTS." '

Really

I missed this last thing: 'You definitely didn't call me the next day because I was in Las Vegas running the NFFC drafts when you were in New York. But just a minor detail, I'm sure.'

Yep forgot I couldn't have called you there was no cell phone's back than. You never gave out your cell phone number just in case someone had draft problems, right Greg.

This will be my last post in this Topic. I think I have a right to responsed to your post, No?

Thanks and Good luck to you and Tom in the Future.

[ December 01, 2011, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: Raiders ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:00 am

Originally posted by Raiders:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
So Stan lied, [/QUOTE]No John, you took what he posted and made up a figure. A non-factual figure. He said four owners. YOU said Fanball owned 25%. Even if there were four owners -- which there weren't -- your facts are way off. That's why some people are called majority owners John, they own the majority of the company.

Let's be perfectly clear that we have no reason to be apologists for Fanball. Heck, I was in a meeting with two other industry execs when I heard Ryan say the same thing. But if you knew what the facts were you'd understand why it's just talk.

Good bye and since you've given up fantasy football good luck in your other endeavors.

Erok · Post by **Erok** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:50 am

$200,000!

I certainly wouldnt sit back and not be paid, I'll tell you that much.

I hope somehow you guys get your money. That is just outright sickening what WCOFF did.

Maybe Dustin used to work for Goldman Sachs. He may have been following their business model and is waiting for a government bailout to pay everyone;)