I'm going to start a new thread because I don't believe that roster size is an issue. I also don't think 14 teams is an issue, unless you don't consider the league size in specifying the roster makeup. Here's my analysis copied from the other thread:
Let me use some numbers to make my point. This week, not counting Monday's game, there were 18 QBs with over 15 fantasy points, including 2 that were free agents.
Again, not counting Monday night, there were 10 RBs with over 15 fantasy points.
Interestingly, we are required to start only 1 QB but we must start 2 RBs. Does this make sense?
As for WRs, 20 had 15 or more fantasy points.
Let's see what happens if we move the threshold to 10 fantasy points:
QB: 21
RB:16
WR: 37
It just doesn't seem to make sense to require twice as many RBs as QBs when you know that there are not enough to go around. You are requiring over half the teams to start RBs that will get single digit points, no matter how smart we all are.
I will add some more thoughts:
The reason I have a problem with this is that it adds too much luck to the event. Since you are required to start 2 RBs, a RB injury is unrecoverable. It also adversely affects the draft as any strategy without a RB in the 1st 2 rounds is difficult to win with and thus, as I've said before, favors early draft positions.
By leveling the field we are not making the event "easier", we a making it "fairer". We won't see desperation moves like 999 for Lamar Gordan (not me, thankfully). We might laugh at that bid but we know from the numbers that there are teams without serviceable RBs and desperate situations demand desperate acts.
Roster Makeup, Not size
Roster Makeup, Not size
Well thought out JP. However, WR's get 1 pt per catch to a RB's 1/2. This makes the Moss, Holt, Owens, Ward, Harrison crew as valuable (if not more than some of the early RB's taken). I do agree that it is extremely difficult to win without taking at least ONE RB in the first 2 rounds, but being a seasoned fantasy footballer, I'm sure you knew that coming in. WR's are ALWAYS more plentiful later, and in our league in particular, there was virtually nothing left at the Rb position at the end of round 3. At pick 3.14, Joe Horn was still available to me, and I think the best RB at that point was Tyrone Wheatley.
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone!
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone!
Roster Makeup, Not size
It really depends on the team. The Moss/Manning (rounds 1 and 2) team in my league put up a cool 197.55 this week (with KJ Carter in the lineup). They now have about 430 overall with Dayne, Wheatley, Fargas and Carter (with a bonus Pittman.) Could be THE team to beat and they did not take a RB until round 4.
[ September 27, 2004, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: nnoy ]
[ September 27, 2004, 05:16 PM: Message edited by: nnoy ]
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TradeStar28
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:00 pm
Roster Makeup, Not size
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Well thought out JP. However, WR's get 1 pt per catch to a RB's 1/2. This makes the Moss, Holt, Owens, Ward, Harrison crew as valuable (if not more than some of the early RB's taken). I do agree that it is extremely difficult to win without taking at least ONE RB in the first 2 rounds, but being a seasoned fantasy footballer, I'm sure you knew that coming in. WR's are ALWAYS more plentiful later, and in our league in particular, there was virtually nothing left at the Rb position at the end of round 3. At pick 3.14, Joe Horn was still available to me, and I think the best RB at that point was Tyrone Wheatley.
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone! Pocket Aces look great thus far!
Congrats!
We have a big game tonite and we are down 4.9 pts. Our choice for RB are Reshard Lee or Richie Anderson....
As of now...we are still undecided who will get the start.
Btw - Jersey Paul...nice job outbidding us $18 to $13 for NY Giants Defense. I originally had the bid in @ $36 but changed it. Oh well....we woulda won already with NYG D -10 to our Browns D - 2
Goodluck
Well thought out JP. However, WR's get 1 pt per catch to a RB's 1/2. This makes the Moss, Holt, Owens, Ward, Harrison crew as valuable (if not more than some of the early RB's taken). I do agree that it is extremely difficult to win without taking at least ONE RB in the first 2 rounds, but being a seasoned fantasy footballer, I'm sure you knew that coming in. WR's are ALWAYS more plentiful later, and in our league in particular, there was virtually nothing left at the Rb position at the end of round 3. At pick 3.14, Joe Horn was still available to me, and I think the best RB at that point was Tyrone Wheatley.
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone! Pocket Aces look great thus far!
Congrats!
We have a big game tonite and we are down 4.9 pts. Our choice for RB are Reshard Lee or Richie Anderson....
As of now...we are still undecided who will get the start.
Btw - Jersey Paul...nice job outbidding us $18 to $13 for NY Giants Defense. I originally had the bid in @ $36 but changed it. Oh well....we woulda won already with NYG D -10 to our Browns D - 2
Goodluck
2012 - FI$HER - Flying High Again
Roster Makeup, Not size
It may be a little premature to be debating this as the final analysis will be better determined by the results. Analyzing the teams in the running in week 15 will yield a picture of the appropriate mix of WR/RB/QB's. No one made these guys select RB/RB/RB or RB/RB/WR. I was forced to select a WR in the first rd as the 5 best RB's were taken. Was forced to select another WR in round two as the run on RB continued. Again in round 3 I selcted another WR thinking I would pick up an ok starter in rd four and I was lucky to get Dunn. Finally left with E Smith as my 2nd starter and filled in with other 3rd down backs and potential starters. Understand the arguement for 2-3 flex players and dont necessarily disagree. We will get a better picture in another 11 weeks upon which to initiate changes if deemed necessary. Then maybe the "general will" can prevail.
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JerseyPaul
- Posts: 786
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:00 pm
Roster Makeup, Not size
Actually, I think my non-RB team will be competitive. If the Oakland O-line continues to improve so Wheatley can put up about 10 points and if I can get 7 or 8 from a FB (or maybe Moe when O is suspended) that should be okay. If Branch didn't do down after a couple of plays in week 2 I'd be 2-1. Of course if I started Bettis and Plummer in week 1 I could have won that also. Plummer was a bad call but Bettis...nobody could see that.
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Route Collectors
- Posts: 3525
- Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:00 pm
Roster Makeup, Not size
JP
Even though I believe you've made some excellent points, it will be tough to change the traditional thinking of starting 2 RB's. What you are suggesting would "put to bed" the RB vs.WR debate. The additional flex would allow owners to field a competitive team from anywhere in the draft. Those on the front end could still use the flex for a quality 2nd RB. Those on the back end could use the flex for an additional WR. There will still be challenges to the team that uses 5 WR. (injuries, bye weeks etc..) If it is indeed a fact that there are so many servicable WR's later in the draft - then it shouldn't be a problem.
What it does do is this:
1) Forces those who pick up front to make harder choices early.
2)Gives owners starting 2 RB'S greater flexibility to deal with injuries.
3)Reduces the chances of a top 5 WR or top 2 QB falling back down to teams 1-3.
I think there is some valid discussion here JP. As long as this thread doesn't turn into another circus.
Even though I believe you've made some excellent points, it will be tough to change the traditional thinking of starting 2 RB's. What you are suggesting would "put to bed" the RB vs.WR debate. The additional flex would allow owners to field a competitive team from anywhere in the draft. Those on the front end could still use the flex for a quality 2nd RB. Those on the back end could use the flex for an additional WR. There will still be challenges to the team that uses 5 WR. (injuries, bye weeks etc..) If it is indeed a fact that there are so many servicable WR's later in the draft - then it shouldn't be a problem.
What it does do is this:
1) Forces those who pick up front to make harder choices early.
2)Gives owners starting 2 RB'S greater flexibility to deal with injuries.
3)Reduces the chances of a top 5 WR or top 2 QB falling back down to teams 1-3.
I think there is some valid discussion here JP. As long as this thread doesn't turn into another circus.
Roster Makeup, Not size
Originally posted by Liquid Empire:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Well thought out JP. However, WR's get 1 pt per catch to a RB's 1/2. This makes the Moss, Holt, Owens, Ward, Harrison crew as valuable (if not more than some of the early RB's taken). I do agree that it is extremely difficult to win without taking at least ONE RB in the first 2 rounds, but being a seasoned fantasy footballer, I'm sure you knew that coming in. WR's are ALWAYS more plentiful later, and in our league in particular, there was virtually nothing left at the Rb position at the end of round 3. At pick 3.14, Joe Horn was still available to me, and I think the best RB at that point was Tyrone Wheatley.
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone! Pocket Aces look great thus far!
Congrats!
We have a big game tonite and we are down 4.9 pts. Our choice for RB are Reshard Lee or Richie Anderson....
As of now...we are still undecided who will get the start.
Btw - Jersey Paul...nice job outbidding us $18 to $13 for NY Giants Defense. I originally had the bid in @ $36 but changed it. Oh well....we woulda won already with NYG D -10 to our Browns D - 2
Goodluck [/QUOTE]Are you able to change that? I was under the impression that all lineups were locked at 1:00 EST. If that is not the case, that is good to know!
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Well thought out JP. However, WR's get 1 pt per catch to a RB's 1/2. This makes the Moss, Holt, Owens, Ward, Harrison crew as valuable (if not more than some of the early RB's taken). I do agree that it is extremely difficult to win without taking at least ONE RB in the first 2 rounds, but being a seasoned fantasy footballer, I'm sure you knew that coming in. WR's are ALWAYS more plentiful later, and in our league in particular, there was virtually nothing left at the Rb position at the end of round 3. At pick 3.14, Joe Horn was still available to me, and I think the best RB at that point was Tyrone Wheatley.
I was with you that picking at the end of the round sucks, but I am hanging right now, because I found a few gems at RB (Foster, Onterrio - although he will be taking a vacation) and Roy Williams has been huge for Detroit. Heck, my top 2 picks have combined for ONE TD in the first three weeks! I have said it before, and I will say it again, "the draft is not won in the first 4 rounds, but it can be lost"!
Best of luck to everyone! Pocket Aces look great thus far!
Congrats!
We have a big game tonite and we are down 4.9 pts. Our choice for RB are Reshard Lee or Richie Anderson....
As of now...we are still undecided who will get the start.
Btw - Jersey Paul...nice job outbidding us $18 to $13 for NY Giants Defense. I originally had the bid in @ $36 but changed it. Oh well....we woulda won already with NYG D -10 to our Browns D - 2
Goodluck
[/QUOTE]Are you able to change that? I was under the impression that all lineups were locked at 1:00 EST. If that is not the case, that is good to know! Roster Makeup, Not size
Oh... My... Gosh...
Is this thread really that size doesn't matter??
Dyv
Is this thread really that size doesn't matter??
Dyv
The Wonderful thing about Dyv's is I'm the only one!
Roster Makeup, Not size
I dont understand the bitching. Many different strategies can win and you can win from any position. But here are a few things to consider:
1. There are more running backs that will play in any given week than QB's. Barring injuries, there are only 32 QB (less byes) that will touch the ball. However, there are probably 60 to 80 RBs (2 or 3 per team) that will touch the ball.
2. If you want to load up everyone with an awesome team, that is more of a crap shoot than allowing for a little Darwinism.
3. Just because a guy doesn't score 20+ points doesn't mean he is worthless. Having to put in the analysis to find the guys that are reliable 8 to 15 point scorers vs. a guy that never sees the ball is what makes champions. Sure some guy might luck it up one week, but over 13 weeks, the cream will rise to the top.
1. There are more running backs that will play in any given week than QB's. Barring injuries, there are only 32 QB (less byes) that will touch the ball. However, there are probably 60 to 80 RBs (2 or 3 per team) that will touch the ball.
2. If you want to load up everyone with an awesome team, that is more of a crap shoot than allowing for a little Darwinism.
3. Just because a guy doesn't score 20+ points doesn't mean he is worthless. Having to put in the analysis to find the guys that are reliable 8 to 15 point scorers vs. a guy that never sees the ball is what makes champions. Sure some guy might luck it up one week, but over 13 weeks, the cream will rise to the top.