superpion...
nice post.. fair points. before i answer, let me say this. I LIKE BBDS. i am not "anti-bbds". i am just not "anti-derby style" and do not like seeing it get mocked in a way that will make it hard for other new people here to understand that it does have merit.
i recruited 3 new people into the NFFC this year. i tried to get more. one the the main things that scared people off was the following... "i am not sure i can plop down $1250 to play a league like this where the rules are more complex then my local league with pals and it might take me a year or two of donation to learn the ropes of how to succeed in a league like this."
most people are not used to 14 team leagues, or roster sizes like we have, or no trades, having to start 3 WR's and a flex. now all of these things are GREAT and make the NFFC great. but they often differ from what the local john doe is used to. adding in a concept of BIDDING for your draft position WILL 100% SCARE SOME PEOPLE AWAY. now, on the other hand, we have no way to measure how many new people might love this idea and that might outweight those scared off. i am just here playing devils advocate and also want the derby method seriously considered.
one other negative with BBDS (a minor one)is that it will take away some of the league to league equality. meaning in some leagues, certain owners will have huge advantages in terms of free agent money and could be able to build a team that will be strong in terms of competing for the main event prize in part helped by the advantages they had within their own league thanks to BBDS.
gekko..
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage.
[ October 29, 2005, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by renman:
gekko..
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. First, let me say I am in TOTAL favor of going to BBDS. It would give owners a chance to have SOME input on what their draft position will be. That being said, I (like Renman) do feel that the "Kentucky Derby drafting" IS better than random selection. The reason for me is, there are always tiers in the first few rounds (after 3 rounds, it gets difficult as to which picks will be selected IMO). For most this year, the top 3 were set (LT, SA, and Edge), Holmes was going at #4, then the talent got sketchy IMO (for example, saw McGahee go anywhere from 5 -11). Now getting #5 was about the same as getting #11, in fact, I took McAllister at #10 (
), but felt he was good value at the time. The point is, he was higher on MY board, but obviously not everyone else's. In Chicago 5, Culpepper went at #3 overall. Don't you think the guy at #4 (who coincidentally happens to be in first) wasn't smiling when James fell to him??? The point is you will NEVER be able to predict what people will do in a draft, and the draft is RARELY won in the first 3 rounds, so draft position is really to some extent, a moot point.
I prefer the BBDS, but KDD would also be an upgrade over the current random system.
To compliment Renman's quote, I think more people end up being happy in the BBDS system (because there IS more control), but in BOTH systems some people are not going to be happy! The person who picks last in the KDD system might get pick say #4 because everyone else feels it is a bad slot, but that owner may feel it is a GREAT slot!!
With all that being said, I do like the concept of BBDS, as for those who say, "just give me LT, and I can win!" can get him..... IF, THE PRICE IS RIGHT........ COME ON DOWN!!!!
[ October 29, 2005, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
gekko..
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. First, let me say I am in TOTAL favor of going to BBDS. It would give owners a chance to have SOME input on what their draft position will be. That being said, I (like Renman) do feel that the "Kentucky Derby drafting" IS better than random selection. The reason for me is, there are always tiers in the first few rounds (after 3 rounds, it gets difficult as to which picks will be selected IMO). For most this year, the top 3 were set (LT, SA, and Edge), Holmes was going at #4, then the talent got sketchy IMO (for example, saw McGahee go anywhere from 5 -11). Now getting #5 was about the same as getting #11, in fact, I took McAllister at #10 (
), but felt he was good value at the time. The point is, he was higher on MY board, but obviously not everyone else's. In Chicago 5, Culpepper went at #3 overall. Don't you think the guy at #4 (who coincidentally happens to be in first) wasn't smiling when James fell to him??? The point is you will NEVER be able to predict what people will do in a draft, and the draft is RARELY won in the first 3 rounds, so draft position is really to some extent, a moot point.I prefer the BBDS, but KDD would also be an upgrade over the current random system.
To compliment Renman's quote, I think more people end up being happy in the BBDS system (because there IS more control), but in BOTH systems some people are not going to be happy! The person who picks last in the KDD system might get pick say #4 because everyone else feels it is a bad slot, but that owner may feel it is a GREAT slot!!
With all that being said, I do like the concept of BBDS, as for those who say, "just give me LT, and I can win!" can get him..... IF, THE PRICE IS RIGHT........ COME ON DOWN!!!!
[ October 29, 2005, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
VG - a question for you...
would you be in favor of using either
(1) the kentucky dufus method
or
(2) a 100% random method
to determine the weekly allocation of free agents?
thanks in advance for your time. paging vegas gambler...what happened to you? i answer your question and give you a question and then you disappear. huh
VG - a question for you...
would you be in favor of using either
(1) the kentucky dufus method
or
(2) a 100% random method
to determine the weekly allocation of free agents?
thanks in advance for your time. paging vegas gambler...what happened to you? i answer your question and give you a question and then you disappear. huh
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by renman:
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. you said NEVER. that's one lie...i mean mistatement you made in trying to prove your point.
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. you said NEVER. that's one lie...i mean mistatement you made in trying to prove your point.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. you said NEVER. that's one lie...i mean mistatement you made in trying to prove your point. [/QUOTE]Gekko, I am with you on this, but c'mon!....
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes:
It is a true statement. NO ONE knows what draft spot everyone prefers, and therefore, if my favorite was 13, and I was picking 14th in the KDD and the people in front of me took 1-12 and 14, would I not be happy?
Same thing applies the other way. If I was picked 14th in the KDD, and I pick 13 was my least favorite, it WOULD take the previous 13 owners to select EVERY number other than 13 in order for me to get me "least favorite selection". Renman is EXACTLY right.
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.) and the fact that you aren't doing well this year, has people questioning your motives on trying to install BBDS.
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.
Tread lightly my friend! 
quote:Originally posted by renman:
the ONLY way the 14th selected owner gets his least favorite draft spot is if the 13 owners ahead of him happened to pick the exact same draft preferences over 14 did... it wont happen. and EVEN IF IT DID it is so insignificant due to the fact it is a myth that controling ones first round draft position is any more then a VERY MINOR and unpredictable advantage. you said NEVER. that's one lie...i mean mistatement you made in trying to prove your point. [/QUOTE]Gekko, I am with you on this, but c'mon!....
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes:
It is a true statement. NO ONE knows what draft spot everyone prefers, and therefore, if my favorite was 13, and I was picking 14th in the KDD and the people in front of me took 1-12 and 14, would I not be happy?
Same thing applies the other way. If I was picked 14th in the KDD, and I pick 13 was my least favorite, it WOULD take the previous 13 owners to select EVERY number other than 13 in order for me to get me "least favorite selection". Renman is EXACTLY right.
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.) and the fact that you aren't doing well this year, has people questioning your motives on trying to install BBDS.
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.
Tread lightly my friend!
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes: Originally posted by renman:
even though with the derby style owners DO have a say... and the guy selected 14 will never be left with his 14th favorite spot. biily...see the bold part. thanks
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes: Originally posted by renman:
even though with the derby style owners DO have a say... and the guy selected 14 will never be left with his 14th favorite spot. biily...see the bold part. thanks
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.maybe you're right. but, i can't change who i am, can i?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.)
makes for good reading though
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.i told greg this in a private e-mail. why would greg decide against BBDS? if the system is far superior to the existing system, won't it benefit the nffc in the long-run...no matter what a handful of anti-BBDS MB bloke say?
again, i haven't seen one top gamer voice his opinion against the BBDS system.
[ October 29, 2005, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.maybe you're right. but, i can't change who i am, can i?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.)
makes for good reading though
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.i told greg this in a private e-mail. why would greg decide against BBDS? if the system is far superior to the existing system, won't it benefit the nffc in the long-run...no matter what a handful of anti-BBDS MB bloke say?
again, i haven't seen one top gamer voice his opinion against the BBDS system.
[ October 29, 2005, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Gordon Gekko ]
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes: Originally posted by renman:
even though with the derby style owners DO have a say... and the guy selected 14 will never be left with his 14th favorite spot. biily...see the bold part. thanks [/QUOTE]It wasn't in the quote on the previous page that you highlighted.
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Why are you splitting hairs??? And when your splitting hairs, it isn't even correct as the word NEVER isn't in the quote! :rolleyes: Originally posted by renman:
even though with the derby style owners DO have a say... and the guy selected 14 will never be left with his 14th favorite spot. biily...see the bold part. thanks [/QUOTE]It wasn't in the quote on the previous page that you highlighted.
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.maybe you're right. but, i can't change who i am, can i?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.)
makes for good reading though
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.i told greg this in a private e-mail. why would greg decide against BBDS? if the system is far superior to the existing system, won't it benefit the nffc in the long-run...no matter what a handful of anti-BBDS MB bloke say?
again, i haven't seen one top gamer voice his opinion against the BBDS system. [/QUOTE]I hope you are right Gekko, as I would love to see it be implemented.
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Gekko, PLEASE don't dissect people's words, subtly insult them when they don't totally agree, etc. You have a GREAT concept here, but everytime you are condescending, you are turning off more and more people to BBDS.maybe you're right. but, i can't change who i am, can i?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Unfortunately, I think you winning it all last year, your arrogant demeanor (saying no one else had a chance in this year's Ultimate with you and Dyv, placing odds on you winning the whole thing again at 40-1, etc.)
makes for good reading though
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Again, I am behind it 100%, but you need more than a handful of people behind this, in order for Greg to make the change.i told greg this in a private e-mail. why would greg decide against BBDS? if the system is far superior to the existing system, won't it benefit the nffc in the long-run...no matter what a handful of anti-BBDS MB bloke say?
again, i haven't seen one top gamer voice his opinion against the BBDS system. [/QUOTE]I hope you are right Gekko, as I would love to see it be implemented.
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dgamblnman
- Posts: 307
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:00 pm
Draft Process: Are You In Favor Of A Change?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
VG - a question for you...
would you be in favor of using either
(1) the kentucky dufus method
or
(2) a 100% random method
to determine the weekly allocation of free agents?
thanks in advance for your time. paging vegas gambler...what happened to you? i answer your question and give you a question and then you disappear. huh [/QUOTE]Sorry GG, unlike you, I have a life...
To answer your question, FAs are not even being discussed so it is irelevant and a pretty stupid question.... next
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
VG - a question for you...
would you be in favor of using either
(1) the kentucky dufus method
or
(2) a 100% random method
to determine the weekly allocation of free agents?
thanks in advance for your time. paging vegas gambler...what happened to you? i answer your question and give you a question and then you disappear. huh [/QUOTE]Sorry GG, unlike you, I have a life...
To answer your question, FAs are not even being discussed so it is irelevant and a pretty stupid question.... next