Originally posted by DiamondKing:
I am not a fan of 3RR.But,I would like to see KDS take the next step.Pull names one at a time.Each person chooses his league and draft slot the morning of the event.You would have to decide what is more important slot/league. This is the beauty of asking for everyone's opinions: Some people want their draft spots on site during the day of the draft and others are saying we are being held back by not giving out draft spots earlier in the off-season. Some folks feel they need 3-4 weeks to prepare for their draft spot and thus we're not growing because we give out draft spots the week before.
As for giving out draft spots on site, I'm all for that for the bigger private leagues if all of the owners want that, but something tells me there's always a few owners who want them well in advance. But I'm game for this in the NFFC Diamond League or Ultimate League or Supers in 2012 if all of the owners agree to it. It would be fun from our standpoint too.
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
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Greg Ambrosius
- Posts: 36413
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
I prefer to know draft spots in advance too.
However, I hope the NFFC NEVER allows owners to pick their LEAGUES?! :rolleyes: If they do, poor KoQ might be playing in a league all by himself!
However, I hope the NFFC NEVER allows owners to pick their LEAGUES?! :rolleyes: If they do, poor KoQ might be playing in a league all by himself!
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The Champs
- Posts: 21
- Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:00 pm
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
There are a lot of different opinions in this thread so I might as well add mine..... In my opinion, it all depends on where Tom and Greg want the primetime event to go.
On one hand, the things that make the NFFC unique (primarily KDS, 3RR and no playoffs) appeals to the more dedicated fantasy football player. It gives us more options, adds in a couple layers of strategy and presumably reduces the luck factor. Though, I personally think 3RR is unnecessary in a 12 team league. I also think, this added strategy limits the player pool and the potential for growth of the contest.
On the other hand, I think the simplicity of the WCOFF format appealed to the masses (we all know it wasn't the customer service). IMO, if you want the largest potential customer base, you need to make the contest look as close to your typical "home" league as you can. You want the typical player that has won his home league a couple times to take a shot. I think they are more likely to take that shot if the national contest is similar to what they have already been playing. You want the attitude of "well, I've already won my home league and this national contest is basically the same so I can win that too". I think they are less likely to take that shot when additional rules are added in that may make them think they need to be an "expert" to be successful. We may not like the "luck" factor of head to head or a playoff matchup, but to the typical player that's the part that adds excitement to the league.
Personally, I'd love to show up, do live kds right before the draft, pick your spot and go but that is definitely the minority opinion.
So, the question is, do you want a contest with a loyal limited customer base or the largest possible contest?
On one hand, the things that make the NFFC unique (primarily KDS, 3RR and no playoffs) appeals to the more dedicated fantasy football player. It gives us more options, adds in a couple layers of strategy and presumably reduces the luck factor. Though, I personally think 3RR is unnecessary in a 12 team league. I also think, this added strategy limits the player pool and the potential for growth of the contest.
On the other hand, I think the simplicity of the WCOFF format appealed to the masses (we all know it wasn't the customer service). IMO, if you want the largest potential customer base, you need to make the contest look as close to your typical "home" league as you can. You want the typical player that has won his home league a couple times to take a shot. I think they are more likely to take that shot if the national contest is similar to what they have already been playing. You want the attitude of "well, I've already won my home league and this national contest is basically the same so I can win that too". I think they are less likely to take that shot when additional rules are added in that may make them think they need to be an "expert" to be successful. We may not like the "luck" factor of head to head or a playoff matchup, but to the typical player that's the part that adds excitement to the league.
Personally, I'd love to show up, do live kds right before the draft, pick your spot and go but that is definitely the minority opinion.
So, the question is, do you want a contest with a loyal limited customer base or the largest possible contest?
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
Originally posted by The Champs:
On the other hand, I think the simplicity of the WCOFF format appealed to the masses (we all know it wasn't the customer service). IMO, if you want the largest potential customer base, you need to make the contest look as close to your typical "home" league as you can. You want the typical player that has won his home league a couple times to take a shot . I think they are more likely to take that shot if the national contest is similar to what they have already been playing. You want the attitude of "well, I've already won my home league and this national contest is basically the same so I can win that too". I think they are less likely to take that shot when additional rules are added in that may make them think they need to be an "expert" to be successful. We may not like the "luck" factor of head to head or a playoff matchup, but to the typical player that's the part that adds excitement to the league.
i think this is an excellent statement and i agree 100%
On the other hand, I think the simplicity of the WCOFF format appealed to the masses (we all know it wasn't the customer service). IMO, if you want the largest potential customer base, you need to make the contest look as close to your typical "home" league as you can. You want the typical player that has won his home league a couple times to take a shot . I think they are more likely to take that shot if the national contest is similar to what they have already been playing. You want the attitude of "well, I've already won my home league and this national contest is basically the same so I can win that too". I think they are less likely to take that shot when additional rules are added in that may make them think they need to be an "expert" to be successful. We may not like the "luck" factor of head to head or a playoff matchup, but to the typical player that's the part that adds excitement to the league.
i think this is an excellent statement and i agree 100%
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
here's my last post and then i have to get some work done:
me personally, i would prefer a 11 week schedule with everyone playing each-other once. then league playoffs begin week 12, with 4 teams making the playoffs. #1 best record and then 2-4 highest points. with the higher seeds getting the point difference between them and the team they are playing. so if the #1 seed avg's 160 per and the team they are playing (#4 seed) avg's 145 per week....the #1 (higher seed) would get the difference and start out 15 pts ahead for that game.
now if the team with the best record #1 seed has less avg per week pts then the #4 seed, he just nothing....no advantage at all. they play straight up.
imo, this keeps more teams involved and gives more teams a chance at winning money. if they have a slow start because of injuries or whatever they are still in it....
me personally, i would prefer a 11 week schedule with everyone playing each-other once. then league playoffs begin week 12, with 4 teams making the playoffs. #1 best record and then 2-4 highest points. with the higher seeds getting the point difference between them and the team they are playing. so if the #1 seed avg's 160 per and the team they are playing (#4 seed) avg's 145 per week....the #1 (higher seed) would get the difference and start out 15 pts ahead for that game.
now if the team with the best record #1 seed has less avg per week pts then the #4 seed, he just nothing....no advantage at all. they play straight up.
imo, this keeps more teams involved and gives more teams a chance at winning money. if they have a slow start because of injuries or whatever they are still in it....
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
For me, if I wanted these type of leagues - increased luck factor via league playoffs - I would've gone and JOINED them over the years. Personally, I like that the NFFC IS a bit harder and less for those who might prefer increasing more players' chances of winning. I LIKE that it's so hard to win; to me, that means a bit more.
I don't own the NFFC, so I understand that my desire to keep it as a niche for "experts" (and wanna-be's) might not fit with Tom and Greg's now-evolving business model. But in the end, if it just turns into assuming the role of its deceased ugly cousin(s), then it's less about the NFFC's unique challenges and more about increasing business. I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events; again, I personally was never compelled to join those, so why would I want to see the NFFC morph into them?
My 2 cents.
[ September 21, 2011, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
I don't own the NFFC, so I understand that my desire to keep it as a niche for "experts" (and wanna-be's) might not fit with Tom and Greg's now-evolving business model. But in the end, if it just turns into assuming the role of its deceased ugly cousin(s), then it's less about the NFFC's unique challenges and more about increasing business. I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events; again, I personally was never compelled to join those, so why would I want to see the NFFC morph into them?
My 2 cents.
[ September 21, 2011, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by fflmaster:
i don't know how anyone could say that the same amount of teams are in the money hunt when only top two get paid versus a playoff of four teams.
i hope everyone is correct and teams really value their lifetime standings and keep setting the best lineup possible the entire season. i know i will always keep my league honest when they play my team. however, i expect to be in the money in the end anyway.
let me also say that my first impressions of the NFFC have been great. Just to clarify here: The NFFC Primetime pays the Top 3 teams just like all other contests do. We just reward those teams based on their performance over a 13-week regular season rather than 11 weeks for 12 teams and then two more weeks in a playoff h2h format for just four teams. But at the end of the day, all contests still pay out three spots.
The rationale for how we do it is simple: We used to put too much emphasis on the h2h aspect as well and just feel that over 13 weeks total points is the best indicator of who has the best fantasy team. I understand the thrill of a one-week h2h game for $3,000 or more, but is the best team in that league really the winner of Week 13?? Is that week worth thousands of dollars or having owners agree to split the pot in that game? Maybe and we've been wrong all this time. But our goal is to reward the best team in each league and that's why we go to great lengths to give the prize money to the team that can win both h2h and total points through 13 weeks or to set up a league playoff over three more weeks to teams who split h2h and total points in their leagues. Again, that league playoff is a total points format as we really believe total points is the best indicator of the best team, not a one-week h2h playoff game.
But again, we may be wrong. We're interested in more feedback from those who have played in the other format for years and what they like or dislike about our game format. Thanks for the input. [/QUOTE]greg,
was the superbowl champions last year the new england at 14-2 or atlanta at 13-3? or how about pittsburgh at 12-4 or baltimore at 12-4?
no, it was the green bay packers at 10-6. does the nfl have the entire system wrong?
all i am saying is that with such a short season in fantasy football, keeping as many teams involved will generate more interest.
for example after just two weeks in my league, i have two teams at 2-0 and two teams at 0-2. every other teams is at 1-1. what is more intesting for a season, just let the two 2-0 teams win all the money or have the other 8 owners fight for the last playoff spots.
well the other 8 teams can fight for third place and 500.
to me its all about winning 1st or 2nd.. i don't think the 3rd place money is going to push me in any way to strive for it.
small example after only two weeks but you get the idea.
as for kds and 3rr. i do like the kds format and i am not a fan of the 3rr, but like greg said lets wait and see if the teams balanced out in the end.
however, i do believe these two items are causing people from joining. i agree with others that have posted saying simplicity (althought not ideal) will give more growth and players to the league then making the league more skillful and only the expert players a chance to win.
i do like the fact that i can post my opinions and greg considers them. hey it's just one man's opinion and if i am wrong then so be it. i want to play in the league for many years and want it to grow like everyone else.
greg and tom have been very forth coming that they want the primetime to become the focus next year and want the league to grow to as large as the wcoff was before its folding.
i see 700 plus and a 200,000 prize next year possible with their ownership and service.
[ September 21, 2011, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: fflmaster ]
quote:Originally posted by fflmaster:
i don't know how anyone could say that the same amount of teams are in the money hunt when only top two get paid versus a playoff of four teams.
i hope everyone is correct and teams really value their lifetime standings and keep setting the best lineup possible the entire season. i know i will always keep my league honest when they play my team. however, i expect to be in the money in the end anyway.
let me also say that my first impressions of the NFFC have been great. Just to clarify here: The NFFC Primetime pays the Top 3 teams just like all other contests do. We just reward those teams based on their performance over a 13-week regular season rather than 11 weeks for 12 teams and then two more weeks in a playoff h2h format for just four teams. But at the end of the day, all contests still pay out three spots.
The rationale for how we do it is simple: We used to put too much emphasis on the h2h aspect as well and just feel that over 13 weeks total points is the best indicator of who has the best fantasy team. I understand the thrill of a one-week h2h game for $3,000 or more, but is the best team in that league really the winner of Week 13?? Is that week worth thousands of dollars or having owners agree to split the pot in that game? Maybe and we've been wrong all this time. But our goal is to reward the best team in each league and that's why we go to great lengths to give the prize money to the team that can win both h2h and total points through 13 weeks or to set up a league playoff over three more weeks to teams who split h2h and total points in their leagues. Again, that league playoff is a total points format as we really believe total points is the best indicator of the best team, not a one-week h2h playoff game.
But again, we may be wrong. We're interested in more feedback from those who have played in the other format for years and what they like or dislike about our game format. Thanks for the input. [/QUOTE]greg,
was the superbowl champions last year the new england at 14-2 or atlanta at 13-3? or how about pittsburgh at 12-4 or baltimore at 12-4?
no, it was the green bay packers at 10-6. does the nfl have the entire system wrong?
all i am saying is that with such a short season in fantasy football, keeping as many teams involved will generate more interest.
for example after just two weeks in my league, i have two teams at 2-0 and two teams at 0-2. every other teams is at 1-1. what is more intesting for a season, just let the two 2-0 teams win all the money or have the other 8 owners fight for the last playoff spots.
well the other 8 teams can fight for third place and 500.
to me its all about winning 1st or 2nd.. i don't think the 3rd place money is going to push me in any way to strive for it.
small example after only two weeks but you get the idea.
as for kds and 3rr. i do like the kds format and i am not a fan of the 3rr, but like greg said lets wait and see if the teams balanced out in the end.
however, i do believe these two items are causing people from joining. i agree with others that have posted saying simplicity (althought not ideal) will give more growth and players to the league then making the league more skillful and only the expert players a chance to win.
i do like the fact that i can post my opinions and greg considers them. hey it's just one man's opinion and if i am wrong then so be it. i want to play in the league for many years and want it to grow like everyone else.
greg and tom have been very forth coming that they want the primetime to become the focus next year and want the league to grow to as large as the wcoff was before its folding.
i see 700 plus and a 200,000 prize next year possible with their ownership and service.
[ September 21, 2011, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: fflmaster ]
its nice to be the master
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
Originally posted by Sandman62:
For me, if I wanted these type of leagues - increased luck factor via league playoffs - I would've gone and JOINED them over the years. Personally, I like that the NFFC IS a bit harder and less for those who might prefer increasing more players' chances of winning. I LIKE that it's so hard to win; to me, that means a bit more.
I don't own the NFFC, so I understand that my desire to keep it as a niche for "experts" (and wanna-be's) might not fit with Tom and Greg's now-evolving business model. But in the end, if it just turns into assuming the role of its deceased ugly cousin(s), then it's less about the NFFC's unique challenges and more about increasing business. I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events; again, I personally was never compelled to join those, so why would I want to see the NFFC morph into them?
My 2 cents. i understand your view but lets be honest....every business is in business to make money and increase profits every year.
its cool that the nffc has its niche's but money talks very loud sometimes. and those "luck"leagues had tons of players and made tons of money (not dustin and jesse, they were idiots and theives)
great topic and thread......
For me, if I wanted these type of leagues - increased luck factor via league playoffs - I would've gone and JOINED them over the years. Personally, I like that the NFFC IS a bit harder and less for those who might prefer increasing more players' chances of winning. I LIKE that it's so hard to win; to me, that means a bit more.
I don't own the NFFC, so I understand that my desire to keep it as a niche for "experts" (and wanna-be's) might not fit with Tom and Greg's now-evolving business model. But in the end, if it just turns into assuming the role of its deceased ugly cousin(s), then it's less about the NFFC's unique challenges and more about increasing business. I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events; again, I personally was never compelled to join those, so why would I want to see the NFFC morph into them?
My 2 cents. i understand your view but lets be honest....every business is in business to make money and increase profits every year.
its cool that the nffc has its niche's but money talks very loud sometimes. and those "luck"leagues had tons of players and made tons of money (not dustin and jesse, they were idiots and theives)
great topic and thread......
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
i know everyone keeps talking about not winning the BIG money in the playoffs.
that was not the case last year in the wcoff.
i was the ONLY team to go 11-0 for the season in the entire wcoff but lost in the first week of the playoffs. did i win money? hell yes. 2500
over there they did something similiar to here.
regular season best record won 1250 off the top BEFORE PLAYOFFS.
regualar season most points 1250 off the top BEFORE PLAYOFFS
then another 5000 went to the winner of the playoffs, then another 1500 went to second place
then another 500 went to third place.
the nffc can do something similiar with maybe a little less money for each spot depending on league prizes.
as andy said, we could also do something like going into the playoffs with your average regular season score difference as a point advantage.
so lets look at an example of how this could play out:
i go 10-1 with an average of 155 points per week
2nd goes 9-2 with an average of 161 points per week
3rd has 9-2 with an average of 147 points
4th went 7-4 with an average of 165 points (some bad luck loses)
in the old system i win 2500 and fourth place team gets 2500 and we play each other for 2500.
oh yea 2nd place team gets 500
3rd place team is out of luck
in a playoff system, i win 1250 and fourth gets 1250.
now all four teams play for 5000, 1500 and 500.
i play against team four with a 10 point dis-advantage and team 2 plays three with a 14 point advantage.
or you can have top record play least amount of points that make playoffs as well. therefore i would play team three.
winning teams get same average advantage depending on who won in first week of playoffs for championship.
which to you sounds more fun and will have more teams interested the WHOLE SEASON?
this is just an idea
[ September 21, 2011, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: fflmaster ]
that was not the case last year in the wcoff.
i was the ONLY team to go 11-0 for the season in the entire wcoff but lost in the first week of the playoffs. did i win money? hell yes. 2500
over there they did something similiar to here.
regular season best record won 1250 off the top BEFORE PLAYOFFS.
regualar season most points 1250 off the top BEFORE PLAYOFFS
then another 5000 went to the winner of the playoffs, then another 1500 went to second place
then another 500 went to third place.
the nffc can do something similiar with maybe a little less money for each spot depending on league prizes.
as andy said, we could also do something like going into the playoffs with your average regular season score difference as a point advantage.
so lets look at an example of how this could play out:
i go 10-1 with an average of 155 points per week
2nd goes 9-2 with an average of 161 points per week
3rd has 9-2 with an average of 147 points
4th went 7-4 with an average of 165 points (some bad luck loses)
in the old system i win 2500 and fourth place team gets 2500 and we play each other for 2500.
oh yea 2nd place team gets 500
3rd place team is out of luck
in a playoff system, i win 1250 and fourth gets 1250.
now all four teams play for 5000, 1500 and 500.
i play against team four with a 10 point dis-advantage and team 2 plays three with a 14 point advantage.
or you can have top record play least amount of points that make playoffs as well. therefore i would play team three.
winning teams get same average advantage depending on who won in first week of playoffs for championship.
which to you sounds more fun and will have more teams interested the WHOLE SEASON?
this is just an idea
[ September 21, 2011, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: fflmaster ]
its nice to be the master
First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime
I guess if it's the Primetime's destiny to morph into a more honest version of the WCOFF, then so be it. As long as the Classic maintains its role, we'll have a choice. I know where my preference lies.
[ September 21, 2011, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
[ September 21, 2011, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]