First Impressions of the NFFC Primetime

thegambler · Post by **thegambler** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:39 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
I guess if it's the Primetime's destiny to morph into a more honest version of the WCOFF, then so be it. As long as the Classic maintains its role, we'll have a choice. I know where my preference lies. and as long as we get paid....

whenever i hear or use the wcoff name it makes me cringe to think what they did to people this year.

sorry not trying to change or hi-jack the thread.

fflmaster · Post by **fflmaster** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:46 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
But in the end, if it just turns into assuming the role of its deceased ugly cousin(s), then it's less about the NFFC's unique challenges and more about increasing business. I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events;

My 2 cents. i think greg and tom are in this business to have the best league possible AND TO MAKE MONEY.

showing that you don't care if the NFFC ever grows shows to me that you may not be their target audience in the future.

sandman, there is nothing wrong with wanting to play against only 400 people for 100,000 every year and i understand the smaller the better the odds thing, but i think greg and tom really want this contest to be much bigger then that and therefore make a hell of lot more money in the process.

at least that is what i would want as a business owner.

now as just a person that plays fantasy football, i would probably rather learn how to best use the kds and 3rr to the best of my ability and have the best chance at winning the 100,000. in the end i would probably win more money since i believe in my skills.

however, i understand that the league needs to cater to the masses to become the largest and most profitable.

catering to a smaller crowd will never get that done.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:17 am

If you're going to use the Quote feature, please leave quotes intact:

"I don't care if NFFC events ever have the participation level of other big events; again, I personally was never compelled to join those, so why would I want to see the NFFC morph into them?"

For the record, IMO, there's a lot more to being successful in the NFFC than just "learning how to best use the kds and 3rr to the best of my ability". The fact that total points DO count for more than H2H means it's less likely you can "luck into" a title.

The main NFFC draw for me is the 14-team Classic and I understand the intent to grow the Primetime (to increase business). And it sounds like the easiest way to do that is to simply duplicate in all gameplay aspects what the WCOFF was. Heck, they've always had more members, so give them something they're used to and they'll come. I get it. I just hope that we don't simply ignore the many longtime loyal NFFC members who come here because the gameplay format IS different. I despise league playoffs and am convinced that the only reason anyone likes them is because it increases the luck factor of an inferior team winning.

I would just hope that some of those looking for drastic changes to the Primetime would seek first to understand and try it as is before revamping it into WCOFF2 (of course, with far bettter management). But perhaps that ship's already sailed. If so, long live the Classic and other 14-team events that don't do H2H lucky-ass league playoffs! :rolleyes:

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:29 am

The balancing act we have to figure out is what's the best way to grow our events while understanding what our current players like and what also may attract new customers. As this thread is proving, that isn't an easy decision to make. One positive that I see is we are the only event in the industry that has two Main Events and both offer differences that make them equally challenging and competitive.

Perhaps the way to go is keep the Classic as is since that's a proven event that we know a lot of people enjoy playing. Then we can further transform the Primetime into something that may have broader appeal. Not saying that's what we'll do but perhaps that's something we have to look at closely as we move forward.

We have a lot to consider and this thread is very helpful. So keep the feedback coming.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:38 am

Maybe consider ADDING a WCOFF-flavored Primetime IN ADDITION to the existing NFFC Primetime? But changing playoffs to H2H might gain new customers at the expense of existing. True, the net effect of just morphing the current Primetime might mean more profits, but it also removes an event that perhaps many longtime NFFC members still enjoy.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:42 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
changing playoffs to H2H might gain new customers at the expense of existing.That's part of the balancing act I was referring to, Mike. We certainly want to grow our events but we don't want to alienate our current customers in the process. That makes no sense. Like I said, we have a lot we'll think about as the season goes along. Nothing has been determined by any means. But the high-stakes football landscape has changed dramatically as we all know and we need to determine the best course of action as we move forward.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:47 am

WCOFF was big because it was BIG. It had first mover status with a massive player base that knew little about alternatives. Nor cared to. They marched to LV like lemmings for the 1st NFL weekend and knew to go to the WCOFF draft for a football contest. THAT and the fact most had $ rolled over. NOT because it had a better contest or format. IMO

BONGIZMO · Post by **BONGIZMO** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:00 am

No Playoffs imo. I like the extended season and am fine with rewarding H2H as well as points in the current format.

KDS and 3RR are irrelevant to me, Just give me the rules and I'll adjust my draft techniques accordingly. To that end, I would welcome a find your draft slot the day of the draft league if thats on the menu in 2012.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:30 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
Maybe consider ADDING a WCOFF-flavored Primetime IN ADDITION to the existing NFFC Primetime? But changing playoffs to H2H might gain new customers at the expense of existing. True, the net effect of just morphing the current Primetime might mean more profits, but it also removes an event that perhaps many longtime NFFC members still enjoy. I'm not sure why anyone is talking in past tense like a Primetime decision has been made for 2012. Last I looked we had 360 teams in the Primetime this year and the chance to grow well beyond that in 2012 even if we don't make any changes. If there's a much bigger grand prize with the same format next year I believe players will come. If players get paid on time, get first class customer service, have a fair contest and the ROI is very fair players will come. Trust me, NOTHING has been decided for 2012 and it won't be until January.

I can say that we will survey our members, seek feedback from old and new players, and come up with a format in January that gets the ball rolling for the next season very early. We look forward to a strong plan for 2012 and early details to get the next season off and running. And I do think it will be a game plan that grows all of our events in a big way.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Sep 21, 2011 8:37 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
WCOFF was big because it was BIG. It had first mover status with a massive player base that knew little about alternatives. Nor cared to. They marched to LV like lemmings for the 1st NFL weekend and knew to go to the WCOFF draft for a football contest. THAT and the fact most had $ rolled over. NOT because it had a better contest or format. IMO This is without a doubt spot on. It was the first contest and the best for many years. Players marked their calendars each year for this weekend and were told where to go and when to show up. It was only towards the final years when people started questioning things and looking for alternatives. Heck, I can tell you for a fact that two days before this year's draft we were getting calls from WCOFF players who had no idea there wasn't a draft this year and were looking for openings in our Main Events. Unfortunately, we didn't have any and some players went to Las Vegas, paid for rooms and travel, and just were able to gamble on NFL games; not play in any HSFF league.

I'd love to have hundreds of loyal customers like that!!

I do believe many of these same players will be looking at the alternative games that weekend in Las Vegas and making choices based on everything from quick payouts to league formats. I do not believe the post-season format will be the over-riding factor of which contest wins the hearts and minds of these veteran players. It will be one of many factors, but definitely not the only one. And again, if it is I hope that many players see our fairer setup and like the fact that the best team in the league normally wins the most money, not the luckiest in Week 13.