Greg, please help Las Vegas #8..

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:52 pm

Originally posted by SNAKE:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by SNAKE:
HOWEVER the point that ShortsWetting Man made on another thread about the fun being taken out of the h2h competition "fun"????? i've been playing this game for years and i can tell u there is nothing "fun" about H2H competition. [/QUOTE]...yes indeed you may be right, but the more pressing question is do the majority feel this way (SNAKE suspects not)?...SNAKE [/QUOTE]back in '05 I won my league but was around mid-level point wise. My #1 and #3 were lost for the year and I started out 1-2?. I won 9 of the next 10. Some games STILL stick out in my mind. That season was a blast mainly due to H2H. All play points only wouldn't have left anywhere near the same impression. EVERY game was a do or die game. Talk about fun. Did I have the best team in my league ? No. Did I care ? No. All I know is that it sure was a hell of a lot of fun knowing that after shelling out $1300 I still had a chance. Week after week

[ November 03, 2007, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Quahogs ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:03 pm

Originally posted by Quahogs:
back in '05 I won my league but was around mid-level point wise. My #1 and #3 were lost for the year and I started out 1-2?. I won 9 of the next 10. Some games STILL stick out in my mind. That season was a blast mainly due to H2H. All play points only wouldn't have left anywhere near the same impression. EVERY game was a do or die game. Talk about fun. Did I have the best team in my league ? No. Did I care ? No. All I know is that it sure was a hell of a lot of fun knowing that after shelling out $1300 I still had a chance. Week after week

a blast and "fun" for YOU since you had a substandard team that took money away from better teams.

btw, you can shell out $1,300 on lottery tickets and have a chance of winning too, i was hoping that FF was more skill dependent

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:35 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
a blast and "fun" for YOU since you had a substandard team that took money away from better teams.

those were the rules of the game. It was possible for inferior teams to come out ahead. Mine was one. I'm sure the majority understood that this could happen yet they anted up anyway.

btw, you can shell out $1,300 on lottery tickets and have a chance of winning too, i was hoping that FF was more skill dependent

it looks like baseball is. football not as much. A shorter season and smaller roster (more indiv.player impact) simply wrecks the skill factor in FF.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:38 pm

Originally posted by Quahogs:
those were the rules of the game. It was possible for inferior teams to come out ahead. Mine was one. I'm sure the majority understood that this could happen yet they anted up anyway.
as posted earlier in this thread...

H2H is just getting outdated for the serious owners. i guess we need to wait until we have enough serious owners before the H2H format is thrown into the trash heap (where it belongs).

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:01 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:
those were the rules of the game. It was possible for inferior teams to come out ahead. Mine was one. I'm sure the majority understood that this could happen yet they anted up anyway.
as posted earlier in this thread...

H2H is just getting outdated for the serious owners. i guess we need to wait until we have enough serious owners before the H2H format is thrown into the trash heap (where it belongs). [/QUOTE]Put me down as a non-serious owner.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:11 pm

To eliminate the luck factor in fantasy football, I've submitted my request for a 32 game season to the NFL offices. I'm sure once the commissioner gets back to me on this, I'll have some good news for all fantasy players.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 10:25 pm

Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:
those were the rules of the game. It was possible for inferior teams to come out ahead. Mine was one. I'm sure the majority understood that this could happen yet they anted up anyway.
as posted earlier in this thread...

H2H is just getting outdated for the serious owners. i guess we need to wait until we have enough serious owners before the H2H format is thrown into the trash heap (where it belongs). [/QUOTE]Put me down as a non-serious owner. [/QUOTE]Why would anyone using reason and logic as the basis for making decisions (I believe you do, maybe I'm wrong) want to use an inferior method for determining a large chunk of FF success?

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 11:51 pm

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:
those were the rules of the game. It was possible for inferior teams to come out ahead. Mine was one. I'm sure the majority understood that this could happen yet they anted up anyway.
as posted earlier in this thread...

H2H is just getting outdated for the serious owners. i guess we need to wait until we have enough serious owners before the H2H format is thrown into the trash heap (where it belongs). [/QUOTE]Put me down as a non-serious owner. [/QUOTE]Why would anyone using reason and logic as the basis for making decisions (I believe you do, maybe I'm wrong) want to use an inferior method for determining a large chunk of FF success? [/QUOTE]Because there's potential conflict between what would be the truest, fairest method for determining FF success vs. what's best for running a FF business.

I agree that an "all-play" format is a better measure of success and reduces the luck factor. I've played this format many times, and I like it, but I'll tell you my observations. What happens is that many more teams are eliminated earlier in the season when they fall way behind, and the result is that many more teams end up quitting earlier in the season. Sure, the teams that quit don't disproportionately affect the other remaining teams in this format, but many of those eliminated did not enjoy the "short" season and don't return. That's not particularly good for business. While the traditional H2H format involves luck, it does keep more players engaged during the season with a chance of making the playoffs.

The same argument could be made about eliminating the Won-Loss concept altogether and ranking teams only by Total Points scored. Is that a better measure of FF skill? Maybe, but it sure wouldn't be as fun for most players.

Let me be clear: I'm NOT advocating H2H. I'm just saying that there's a potential difference between what's the best measure of FF skill vs. what's best for FF business. If the rules are changed to satisfy the "serious" FF player, then the "average" or "casual" player (i.e., dead-money contributors) might not play.

While changing to an "all-play" format might draw some additional players, it would probably cost the NFFC more players than it would bring in.

Just my opinion.

Sound Advice · Post by **Sound Advice** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:28 am

Larry Lizard does well:
Skill.

Larry Lizard blows:
Bad luck.

Can we all agree on that?
God knows we've heard it a thousand times.

renman · Post by **renman** » Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:41 am

A few things..

-Nothing ruins a fantasy football league or experience quite like a team that quits in mid-season and skews the competitive fairness for others in the league. I cannot see why the NFFC cannot simply start the highest averaging scorers on the bench for the quitting team. Obviously it would be the highest averaging players who are actually playing that week, thus no bye week or injured players. Make it completely connected to a number. This does not completely solve the problem, but it does soften the blow of a quitting owner.

-While I agree with gekko that an all-play format is the best way to identify the best team that year, that does not mean it is the best way for the event to be popular for the masses. While he may dislike straight h2h I would wager most across this country love it. The essence of fantasy football and football in general is a head to head contest vs another team. If we made it all play or solely a total points thing 70% of the teams would be out of the competition by week 6. Part of the fun is when your team has a bad week but you sneak out a win against another team who struggled... part of the ultimate fantasy football pain is when your team scores high and loses to another great performance.

Part of the fun and challenge of fantasy football is being able to manage your team back into contention after a bad start or some bad injuries. That unpredictable part of fantasy football is part of what makes this fun. The following of and rooting against your opponents players is part of the fun.

Having an all-play league as a satellite event could be feasible, but I do not think it would be the right move for the overall event.