On what page # will we get to the punchline It has now turned into a "quest" as to why SOME leagues would be listed correctly, but some would not.
Gotta go, time for dinner!
3RR impact
3RR impact
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
On what page # will we get to the punchline It has now turned into a "quest" as to why SOME leagues would be listed correctly, but some would not.
Gotta go, time for dinner!
On what page # will we get to the punchline It has now turned into a "quest" as to why SOME leagues would be listed correctly, but some would not.
Gotta go, time for dinner!
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR impact
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
I had a problem with Rd 4. You had other problems.
I had a problem with Rd 4. You had other problems.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR impact
Originally posted by JohnZ:
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
who is eddie
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
who is eddie
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
3RR impact
Originally posted by JohnZ:
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
I had a problem with Rd 4. You had other problems. I think you meant Billy.
I see what you said about Rudi, but it was your 2nd and 3rd round numbers that were off, not 4th. You had TEAM 13 selecting Brady in the SECOND round! For that to happen, he would have been the 16th OVERALL pick!
Again, I don't understand why SOME leagues would incorrect, but some not?
Seems odd there would be a "glitch" only ON certain leagues.
[ November 21, 2007, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
I had a problem with Rd 4. You had other problems. I think you meant Billy.
I see what you said about Rudi, but it was your 2nd and 3rd round numbers that were off, not 4th. You had TEAM 13 selecting Brady in the SECOND round! For that to happen, he would have been the 16th OVERALL pick!
Again, I don't understand why SOME leagues would incorrect, but some not?
Seems odd there would be a "glitch" only ON certain leagues.
[ November 21, 2007, 03:25 PM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]
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ultimatefs
- Posts: 2393
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR impact
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
who is eddie [/QUOTE]Eddie, Billy, they all look the same to me. Knee deep in baseball work.
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
Eddie, I have deleted all my posts on this. Please do the same.
who is eddie
[/QUOTE]Eddie, Billy, they all look the same to me. Knee deep in baseball work.Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
3RR impact
Originally posted by RiFF:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
I disagree, Lou.
Your "proof is in the pudding" statement has no merit - distribution of the top 36 says nothing about 3RR.
3RR gives one a greater opportunity to get better value in round 3 because of the reversal that round. If slot #1 and slot #14 both wanted Tom Brady or Randy Moss in round 3, slot #1 would've got one of them without 3RR (making that particular #1 team even more dominant), whereas slot #14 would've got one of them under 3RR (providing greater league balance).
3RR balances opportunity, everyone is still free to make bad or unlucky decisions. Without 3RR the top slots would have had the opportunity to control even more of the top 36 slots. Although all of this is a moot point, as Greg has stated repeatedly; 3RR is here to stay in NFFC;
but Kevin, your point about opportunity is exactly what concerned me about 3RR when it was initially discussed. That is, the opportunity for the early draft slots to be even stronger with 3RR than a serpentine draft. As you stated, in hindsight, team one could have gotten Brady and Moss with their 2nd and 3rd picks in most NFFC drafts this year using a serpentine draft. Well in hindsight if the production of Brady and Moss had been known (or even suspected) prior to the draft they would have both been drafted in the 1st round before the late picks even had a shot at them. Of course, their production wasn't known and I suspect in most NFFC drafts the early picks could have had both of them with their 3rd and 4th round picks. I know in LV 2 they could have been drafted there. So Kevin, instead of LT, TJ, Ahman and Branch you could have been sitting with LT, TJ, Brady and Moss.
And in fact the overall leader did that by taking S Jax, Brady, Moss and A Peterson with his first 4 picks. Imagine what his score would be if S Jax hadn't been hurt most of the season!!
My point was, and still is, 3RR gives the "opportunity" for the early draft slots to draft an even stronger team by getting picks 42 and 43 instead of picks 29 and 56. This year players like Brady, Moss, Peterson, Edwards were available in many NFFC drafts at the 3/4 turn. Last year it was players like TJ, Andre Johnson, Javon Walker who were available there. In very few instances were these players still available at the 4/5 turn. Again, giving the early slots the "opportunity" to start with a stronger team with 3RR. I know I'm still in the minority thinking 3RR strenghtens the early slots potential, but again this year the results so far seem to once again indicate that's the case. But regardless of slot its still imperative to select the "right" player. But, as i've also stated previously, I don't believe 3RR has much of an actual impact on results, but if it makes participants feel more in control that's a plus. But, the real control factor in my opinion is KDS, which is leaps and bounds more valuable than 3RR. [/QUOTE]Rich, congrats on nailing the only legit argument against 3RR - but whether or not your concern is true is only speculative.
If you consider Todd's post a few pages earlier, the theoretical framework which I think we all understand suggests that 3RR is a benefit for the lower slots since the rate of talent dropoff gradually decelerates each round. The question you raise, however, is "how does it actually play out?" And I think the answer to that depends on a lot of variables, including the competition sitting at your particular draft table, and even where they are sitting relative to you.
[ November 21, 2007, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
I disagree, Lou.
Your "proof is in the pudding" statement has no merit - distribution of the top 36 says nothing about 3RR.
3RR gives one a greater opportunity to get better value in round 3 because of the reversal that round. If slot #1 and slot #14 both wanted Tom Brady or Randy Moss in round 3, slot #1 would've got one of them without 3RR (making that particular #1 team even more dominant), whereas slot #14 would've got one of them under 3RR (providing greater league balance).
3RR balances opportunity, everyone is still free to make bad or unlucky decisions. Without 3RR the top slots would have had the opportunity to control even more of the top 36 slots. Although all of this is a moot point, as Greg has stated repeatedly; 3RR is here to stay in NFFC;
but Kevin, your point about opportunity is exactly what concerned me about 3RR when it was initially discussed. That is, the opportunity for the early draft slots to be even stronger with 3RR than a serpentine draft. As you stated, in hindsight, team one could have gotten Brady and Moss with their 2nd and 3rd picks in most NFFC drafts this year using a serpentine draft. Well in hindsight if the production of Brady and Moss had been known (or even suspected) prior to the draft they would have both been drafted in the 1st round before the late picks even had a shot at them. Of course, their production wasn't known and I suspect in most NFFC drafts the early picks could have had both of them with their 3rd and 4th round picks. I know in LV 2 they could have been drafted there. So Kevin, instead of LT, TJ, Ahman and Branch you could have been sitting with LT, TJ, Brady and Moss.
And in fact the overall leader did that by taking S Jax, Brady, Moss and A Peterson with his first 4 picks. Imagine what his score would be if S Jax hadn't been hurt most of the season!!
My point was, and still is, 3RR gives the "opportunity" for the early draft slots to draft an even stronger team by getting picks 42 and 43 instead of picks 29 and 56. This year players like Brady, Moss, Peterson, Edwards were available in many NFFC drafts at the 3/4 turn. Last year it was players like TJ, Andre Johnson, Javon Walker who were available there. In very few instances were these players still available at the 4/5 turn. Again, giving the early slots the "opportunity" to start with a stronger team with 3RR. I know I'm still in the minority thinking 3RR strenghtens the early slots potential, but again this year the results so far seem to once again indicate that's the case. But regardless of slot its still imperative to select the "right" player. But, as i've also stated previously, I don't believe 3RR has much of an actual impact on results, but if it makes participants feel more in control that's a plus. But, the real control factor in my opinion is KDS, which is leaps and bounds more valuable than 3RR. [/QUOTE]Rich, congrats on nailing the only legit argument against 3RR - but whether or not your concern is true is only speculative.
If you consider Todd's post a few pages earlier, the theoretical framework which I think we all understand suggests that 3RR is a benefit for the lower slots since the rate of talent dropoff gradually decelerates each round. The question you raise, however, is "how does it actually play out?" And I think the answer to that depends on a lot of variables, including the competition sitting at your particular draft table, and even where they are sitting relative to you.
[ November 21, 2007, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
3RR impact
I think the bottom line is that Brady will have a MUCH bigger impact on Fantasy Football in 07 than 3RR ever could!
With Brady's ADP falling in the late 3rd or early 4th rounds typically someone in the first half of the draft got Brady (and I understand there are exceptions.) Brady's number will completely taint the data this year and render it useless.
I like 3RR therefore it's a success!
Wayne
With Brady's ADP falling in the late 3rd or early 4th rounds typically someone in the first half of the draft got Brady (and I understand there are exceptions.) Brady's number will completely taint the data this year and render it useless.
I like 3RR therefore it's a success!
Wayne
3RR impact
Again, every year the teams doing best will have the guys who exploded and produced numbers higher than what were projected and the teams who will struggle will be the teams who picked players who under performed relative to prediction and or were injured.
This will happen regardless of if 3RR is in play or not. 3RR takes away the PERCEIVED advantage from the top few spots. When we were debating the merits of 3RR , or BBDS, or the inherent "unfairness" of the old serpentine format I remember clearly saying there were many years that being at the top of the draft board was NOT an advantage and that some of this was a knee jerk reaction to a few epic seasons from a couple stud RB's. It took one season for this to happen.
I think 3RR is great... I think when combined with KDS it provides a great sense of control over something we have little control over or ability to predict with much certainty. It adds fun to the event, it adds pre season strategy, and currently it makes the NFFC unique and takes away the sense of unfairness someone might feel when being asked to pony up $1300 and then possibly being "stuck" with a draft position on the backend of the board.
This year, Brady and Moss will impact the RESULTS of what teams did well from which positions way more than KDS will. Last year LT2 did... Even if KDS was in play last year the LT2 teams would have been very strong.
[ November 21, 2007, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
This will happen regardless of if 3RR is in play or not. 3RR takes away the PERCEIVED advantage from the top few spots. When we were debating the merits of 3RR , or BBDS, or the inherent "unfairness" of the old serpentine format I remember clearly saying there were many years that being at the top of the draft board was NOT an advantage and that some of this was a knee jerk reaction to a few epic seasons from a couple stud RB's. It took one season for this to happen.
I think 3RR is great... I think when combined with KDS it provides a great sense of control over something we have little control over or ability to predict with much certainty. It adds fun to the event, it adds pre season strategy, and currently it makes the NFFC unique and takes away the sense of unfairness someone might feel when being asked to pony up $1300 and then possibly being "stuck" with a draft position on the backend of the board.
This year, Brady and Moss will impact the RESULTS of what teams did well from which positions way more than KDS will. Last year LT2 did... Even if KDS was in play last year the LT2 teams would have been very strong.
[ November 21, 2007, 06:34 PM: Message edited by: renman ]
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
3RR impact
Remember a guy named Michael Turner...and how he was such a hot draft pick and topic of discussion pre and post draft?
Is he still playing in the NFL?
~Lance
Is he still playing in the NFL?
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
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King of Queens
- Posts: 5262
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 6:00 pm
3RR impact
Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Remember a guy named Michael Turner...and how he was such a hot draft pick and topic of discussion pre and post draft?
Is he still playing in the NFL?
~Lance YR Team | G | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD
2002 NorthernIllinois | 12 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 338 1915 19 | 10 100 0 |
2003 NorthernIllinois | 12 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 310 1648 14 | 19 230 3 |
2004 sdg | 13 | 20 104 5.2 0 | 4 8 2.0 0 |
2005 sdg | 16 | 57 335 5.9 3 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
2006 sdg | 13 | 80 502 6.3 2 | 3 47 15.7 0 |
2007 sdg | 10 | 37 216 5.8 1 | 2 14 7.0 0 |
[ November 21, 2007, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: King of Queens ]
Remember a guy named Michael Turner...and how he was such a hot draft pick and topic of discussion pre and post draft?
Is he still playing in the NFL?
~Lance YR Team | G | RSH YD TD | REC YD TD
2002 NorthernIllinois | 12 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 338 1915 19 | 10 100 0 |
2003 NorthernIllinois | 12 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 310 1648 14 | 19 230 3 |
2004 sdg | 13 | 20 104 5.2 0 | 4 8 2.0 0 |
2005 sdg | 16 | 57 335 5.9 3 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
2006 sdg | 13 | 80 502 6.3 2 | 3 47 15.7 0 |
2007 sdg | 10 | 37 216 5.8 1 | 2 14 7.0 0 |
[ November 21, 2007, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: King of Queens ]