Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
btw nag - since you made it crystal clear that your main concern with 3RR is slots 7 and 8, i can't wait to see how you guys try to sell that one. I'm not selling anything. It seems you and a few others are.
3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
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3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
The NFL rates the top draft pick at 3000 points as compared to the 14th pick at 1100. This number would be even more lopsided if the NFL could draft all players each year (including vets) and only had 20 slots instead of 53. But, even without these pluses, the NFL still finds the first pick nearly 3 times as valuable as the 14th! 3RR will only even this out a little: here is how the NFL would rate the first three picks from positions 1, 7, and 14 using 3RR:
Position 1: Pk 1=3000, Pk 28=720, Pk 42=480
Total: 4,200 points.
Position 7: Pk 7=1500, Pk 22=800, Pk 35=600
Total: 2,900 points.
Position 14: Pk 14=1100, Pk 15=1100, Pk 29=720
Total: 2,920.
Here is my source (2004): ****://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/ ... eValue.htm
The bottom line: 3RR does pull late picks even with middle picks, but the top picks still have an extreme advantage. The points of evaluation used by the NFL are not nearly similar or applicable for the purposes of FF. 1st player is 3 times more valuable than the 14th? Only if LT2 (or whomever you draft at #1) scores 450 every year. [/QUOTE]Na Nag, your not getting off that easy. The points should be even more slanted in fantasy football due to less rosters and known commodities. The fact is, somebody will get the chance to draft LT#1 next year! And yes, that is definately worth a 3/1 edge. Note: 3/1 doesn't just mean points he scores versus others, it has to do with the percieved value of the pick! That is what matters!
quote:Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
The NFL rates the top draft pick at 3000 points as compared to the 14th pick at 1100. This number would be even more lopsided if the NFL could draft all players each year (including vets) and only had 20 slots instead of 53. But, even without these pluses, the NFL still finds the first pick nearly 3 times as valuable as the 14th! 3RR will only even this out a little: here is how the NFL would rate the first three picks from positions 1, 7, and 14 using 3RR:
Position 1: Pk 1=3000, Pk 28=720, Pk 42=480
Total: 4,200 points.
Position 7: Pk 7=1500, Pk 22=800, Pk 35=600
Total: 2,900 points.
Position 14: Pk 14=1100, Pk 15=1100, Pk 29=720
Total: 2,920.
Here is my source (2004): ****://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/ ... eValue.htm
The bottom line: 3RR does pull late picks even with middle picks, but the top picks still have an extreme advantage. The points of evaluation used by the NFL are not nearly similar or applicable for the purposes of FF. 1st player is 3 times more valuable than the 14th? Only if LT2 (or whomever you draft at #1) scores 450 every year. [/QUOTE]Na Nag, your not getting off that easy. The points should be even more slanted in fantasy football due to less rosters and known commodities. The fact is, somebody will get the chance to draft LT#1 next year! And yes, that is definately worth a 3/1 edge. Note: 3/1 doesn't just mean points he scores versus others, it has to do with the percieved value of the pick! That is what matters!
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TamuScarecrow
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3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
quote:
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Originally posted by David Comings:
Our local high stakes league decided to try 3RR due to the perceived disadvantage of not getting a top pick. The year we tried it in was 1999. The top two picks that year were Terrell Davis (out for the year in week 4) and Jamal Anderson (out of the year in week 2). 3RR gave a huge edge to the bottom the draft, and the top two finishers were from the last two draft slots. The 3RR experiment lasted all of 1 season.
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cricket, cricket....
I STILL never said I didn't like it. But this IS THE historical premise for my questioning it...
3'Sorry, 3INT, but this would be the historical premise no matter which draft style you used. When the first 2 guys go down, you're sunk. Just look last year at the SA owners. And the year before with the Priest owners who didn't have LJ.
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Originally posted by David Comings:
Our local high stakes league decided to try 3RR due to the perceived disadvantage of not getting a top pick. The year we tried it in was 1999. The top two picks that year were Terrell Davis (out for the year in week 4) and Jamal Anderson (out of the year in week 2). 3RR gave a huge edge to the bottom the draft, and the top two finishers were from the last two draft slots. The 3RR experiment lasted all of 1 season.
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cricket, cricket....
I STILL never said I didn't like it. But this IS THE historical premise for my questioning it...
3'Sorry, 3INT, but this would be the historical premise no matter which draft style you used. When the first 2 guys go down, you're sunk. Just look last year at the SA owners. And the year before with the Priest owners who didn't have LJ.
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
in any event, you (and lou) are posting CONJECTURE as to how 3RR would affect a year like 2002 in the NFFC. no offense, but i'd like to see the draft results from the most similar league around (WCOFF) and see what the FACTS are concerning that league. why are you getting so defensive? and why hasn't lou responded to my question? hmmm.... Relax dude. You have the ADP and the final stats from 2002. Why not use them? I am sure you are smart enough to put 2 & 2 together to see if the top slots did well or not. Why increase margin of error by introducing the results of a 12 team league into the evaluation. Doesn't make sense unless you're looking to get a specific result? Are you looking for a specific result or are you being objective? [/QUOTE]Increase margin of error by using results of a 12 team league??? You aren't using ANY results, only conjecture.
I'm looking for the truth. The 2002 wcoff top 10% regular season scorers may very well support your arguement, but I don't know until I see them. Btw, what year was the wcoff's first year? Was it 2001, 2002, or 2003?
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
in any event, you (and lou) are posting CONJECTURE as to how 3RR would affect a year like 2002 in the NFFC. no offense, but i'd like to see the draft results from the most similar league around (WCOFF) and see what the FACTS are concerning that league. why are you getting so defensive? and why hasn't lou responded to my question? hmmm.... Relax dude. You have the ADP and the final stats from 2002. Why not use them? I am sure you are smart enough to put 2 & 2 together to see if the top slots did well or not. Why increase margin of error by introducing the results of a 12 team league into the evaluation. Doesn't make sense unless you're looking to get a specific result? Are you looking for a specific result or are you being objective? [/QUOTE]Increase margin of error by using results of a 12 team league??? You aren't using ANY results, only conjecture.
I'm looking for the truth. The 2002 wcoff top 10% regular season scorers may very well support your arguement, but I don't know until I see them. Btw, what year was the wcoff's first year? Was it 2001, 2002, or 2003?
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Nag - when snake is on your side (7/8)...doom is not far behind. LOL!
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Originally posted by SNAKE:
1,2,3,4,14,13,12,11,10,9,5,6,7,8...no one should deviate from this KDS order ISHO...thanks mucho...SNAKE I am willing to bet MANY will deviate from that order Snake.
1,2,3,4,14,13,12,11,10,9,5,6,7,8...no one should deviate from this KDS order ISHO...thanks mucho...SNAKE I am willing to bet MANY will deviate from that order Snake.
3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
Na Nag, your not getting off that easy. The points should be even more slanted in fantasy football due to less rosters and known commodities. The fact is, somebody will get the chance to draft LT#1 next year! And yes, that is definately worth a 3/1 edge. Note: 3/1 doesn't just mean points he scores versus others, it has to do with the percieved value of the pick! That is what matters! I think you've gone way too far into the world of unprovable theories. You can try to show how NFL rankings are just like FF and I can show they are not until the end of time and neither one of us will ever be proven right/wrong.
Na Nag, your not getting off that easy. The points should be even more slanted in fantasy football due to less rosters and known commodities. The fact is, somebody will get the chance to draft LT#1 next year! And yes, that is definately worth a 3/1 edge. Note: 3/1 doesn't just mean points he scores versus others, it has to do with the percieved value of the pick! That is what matters! I think you've gone way too far into the world of unprovable theories. You can try to show how NFL rankings are just like FF and I can show they are not until the end of time and neither one of us will ever be proven right/wrong.
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3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
Increase margin of error by using results of a 12 team league??? You aren't using ANY results, only conjecture. I have actual ADP statistics and final year end results from 2002. That's not conjecture. Conjecture is when people are certain a theory is bound to work as planned without any proof to support that optimism.
I'm looking for the truth. The 2002 wcoff top 10% regular season scorers may very well support your arguement, but I don't know until I see them. Btw, what year was the wcoff's first year? Was it 2001, 2002, or 2003? The first year was 2002. I remember it well although I don't have the stats for the regular season finishers. But there was plenty of discussion and breakdown on the WCOFF message boards (those threads are gone as well). The top slots were highly unsuccessful as none of the top 3 consensus players had good years. I'd love to be able to get a hold of that link, assuming it still exists.
Increase margin of error by using results of a 12 team league??? You aren't using ANY results, only conjecture. I have actual ADP statistics and final year end results from 2002. That's not conjecture. Conjecture is when people are certain a theory is bound to work as planned without any proof to support that optimism.
I'm looking for the truth. The 2002 wcoff top 10% regular season scorers may very well support your arguement, but I don't know until I see them. Btw, what year was the wcoff's first year? Was it 2001, 2002, or 2003? The first year was 2002. I remember it well although I don't have the stats for the regular season finishers. But there was plenty of discussion and breakdown on the WCOFF message boards (those threads are gone as well). The top slots were highly unsuccessful as none of the top 3 consensus players had good years. I'd love to be able to get a hold of that link, assuming it still exists.
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