3RR Point/Counterpoint For The Magazine

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:02 pm

I'm going to be done here. I already wasted more time on this nonsense than I should have. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped posting on these boards.

3RR is a super idea and it's destined to be a success as you want it to be. Congrats and enjoy your offseason, Mark.

[ February 21, 2007, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Originally posted by Nag':
I'm going to be done here. I already wasted more time on this nonsense than I should have. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped posting on these boards.

3RR is a super idea and it's destined to be a success as you want it to be. Congrats and enjoy your offseason, Mark. i feel bad for you (and the people who read your posts in this thread) if you think this 3RR discussion is nonsense.

as for you not posting, that's your choice, but if you run away with your tail between your legs when asked legit questions, what light do you think that puts you in?

i don't have all the answers/data when it comes to 3RR. i'm trying to better understand the points you were making, by asking you some key points IMO. why you got so defensive...i'll never know

btw, there is no offseason for me this year. it's been baseball time for me since the nffc season was over.

3INTBOY · Post by **3INTBOY** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:41 am

Originally posted by Blue_Foot:
quote:Originally posted by SNAKE:
...people are bored here RC and the redundant has now become the ad nauseum...

3RR is:

1) a better alternative to random serpentine drafting as it (combined with KDS) gives the owner more flexibility and control over what slot they would rather draft from - and that is not a bad thing...

2) although an improvement, it is by no uncertain terms, a cure-all...

3) a way point in the journey between random serpentine drafting and the superior, final and ultimate destination, BBDS...

...SNAKE Yep! That should end it Snake. I really don't see what else can be said about 3RR. I think that you should start a thread about BBDS. Explain it again and get a serious discussion started about it. Of course, if BBDS were to take hold (the NFFC would be awsome), I would want to see the results published! LOL. But seriously...I would want to see the results.

[/QUOTE]This is in reply to GG as well as this. Because I too am bored in trying to prove the unprovable FUTURE.

Which again makes what Snake has written completely inaccurate UNTIL 3-5 years from now
3RR is NOT a better aternative to random drafting. Its MAY be a better alternative, but no one can back that up with any fact.
KDS is completely seperate from 3RR in your draft slot selection for only one simple (and ignored in this discussion) reason...
You can place it in any order you want but still need your name picked out of a hat etc. at the right time.

It has been a good thread...

3'

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:42 am

Can you smell the sarcasm? I am aware of the discussion. LOL!No sarcasm, BLUE, just fact. This discussion has been had many times over and continues to this day.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 12:47 am

You can place it in any order you want but still need your name picked out of a hat etc. at the right time.This is what would make showing up on Thursday before the draft and randomly picking myself fun. At least I couldn't blame Tom or Greg for who I end up playing against or what draft slot I have.

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 2:06 am

Originally posted by Tamuscarecrow:
quote:You can place it in any order you want but still need your name picked out of a hat etc. at the right time.This is what would make showing up on Thursday before the draft and randomly picking myself fun. At least I couldn't blame Tom or Greg for who I end up playing against or what draft slot I have.

[/QUOTE]Rick,

I think the majority of people (off the top of my head 70% or so) would have a difficult time getting there on Thursday. I know MANY don't do the Friday night events, and many more roll in on Saturday morning.

This may create MORE problems as those who were able to make it and got a "good pick", might be accused of "schmoozing their pick", etc.

I think picking over the internet would solve ANY "trust issues" that some have, but you know some people are going to STILL whine because "they didn't get this", or "someone else got that".

I have absolutely NO PROBLEMS with the way the selection is done now, but I also don't get caught up in the "he got a better pick than me stuff". I'm not going to say that certain picks are not better (there are), but I have said it a million times;

"if you are good, you should be able to win from ANY spot!"

[ February 22, 2007, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: BillyWaz ]

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:01 am

This is what would make showing up on Thursday before the draft and randomly picking myself fun. Am I the only one who got this and thought it was funny? This is probably illegal in all of the draft city's except Vegas.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:18 am

Originally posted by Nag':
I'm going to be done here. I already wasted more time on this nonsense than I should have. It's one of the main reasons why I stopped posting on these boards.

3RR is a super idea and it's destined to be a success as you want it to be. Congrats and enjoy your offseason, Mark. Alex, your counterpoints are legitimate concerns and I'm sure that Lou will include those in his Counterpoint for the magazine article. Your concern -- and the concern Lou should touch on -- is the fact that this could be a knee jerk reaction to LT's record-breaking season. Or is a knee jerk reaction to two straight record-breaking seasons (Alexander in 2005)? It's a legitimate question and I'm sure Lou can state facts that point out that the top pick doesn't always lead to a title.

Lou is also correct in stating that only time will tell if this was a good decision to go with 3RR or not. We can argue until we're blue in the face over that point, but only history will prove one side right or the other. I wasn't sure if going with 14 teams was the right decision or not and in some ways it was and in other ways it wasn't. Only time will tell.

I assume GG will touch on the other factors in his Point column that it's really not about the top picks; it's about those third round top picks coupled with the LT's, LJ's and SA's. That's what 3RR is designed to solve and to give more value to the later picks. We'll find out at the end of the year if 3RR distributed value more evenly this way or not.

From my perspective, I think 3RR gives the PERCEPTION to all owners that the playing field is more level and your draft spot is a little less important than it was before. I believe most people still want a high draft spot, but hopefully 3RR brings more value across the board.

Again, this thread was to introduce the fact that two owners will give two sides of 3RR. No one needs to win that argument, just point out the facts. Then we'll let consumers decide and the number of entrants we finish with in 2007 will be the ultimate answer to whether 3RR was good or not.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 4:54 am

Lou and Alex,

Which year(s) did you not hope for a top pick while waiting for your slots?

I only ask this because I think that 3RR may make more slots desirable from the very start. Using 3RR more owners may actually prefer to draft from the back end giving more owners hope from the very start if they draw something other than 1-3. This is important.

3RR gives me the perception and hope that the statistical balance or gap between the top slots and the rest will be evened out as much as possible in this game.

I think that KDS was the first step in removing some of the luck involved with the draft process because it gives every owner the chance to have some say in where they draft. I know that your name still has to be drawn early to maximize this benefit and I know that luck is still the theme but some owners may get a better slot for themselves when being pulled 10th than the 10 slot if you know what I mean?

Can 3RR go one step further and draw a little more luck of the draw out of the equation? I believe so and that is why I support this change whole heartedly. If 6 players perceive that they got a more desired slot instead of 3 isn't that improving the experience for the participants?

Can any of this be proven? No. But as I stated before, I do not see one single downside to the idea and believe that it is worth a try.

As someone who has played the game for quite some time, I am excited to see this twist added to the draft. I know it will change the way several slots draft their teams based on this new concept. This will add a new layer of complexity to my favorite format, 14 team leagues and that is again good in my book.

I do not consider this to be a knee jerk reaction to one years data as I have had this "snake fairness" discussion for years with players at the home league level and at this level and on these boards.

I believe that most players want the most balanced draft procedure possible and 3RR may be a step in that direction.

I thought that Greg might roll out a satellite or 10 to test this idea this year and was a tad surprised to see it implemented in this years events but I applaud them for taking the steps to try and improve this wonderful game.

I also think that Fantasy Football as we know it is still in it's infancy as a game. I know we have all been playing for a long time but not at this level, not with this many leagues together and not for this type of money. This book has many more pages to be written and 3RR will either be a chapter or a footnote after all is said and done.

This game has to adjust and change to keep itself fresh and the NFFC is committed to doing just that.

No one can say with any certainty that 3RR will achieve it's desired goals but as a player I acknowledge that it has the potential to change this game for the good and I will be playing. I know that this years NFFC draft will be exciting in a different way as we all adjust to this concept.

This is a bold move by an innovative and conscientious leader in the fantasy sports industry.

Will it work? Time will tell but I wouldn't want to miss being a part of this years draft.

Nag' · Post by **Nag'** » Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:25 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Alex, your counterpoints are legitimate concerns and I'm sure that Lou will include those in his Counterpoint for the magazine article. Your concern -- and the concern Lou should touch on -- is the fact that this could be a knee jerk reaction to LT's record-breaking season. Or is a knee jerk reaction to two straight record-breaking seasons (Alexander in 2005)? It's a legitimate question and I'm sure Lou can state facts that point out that the top pick doesn't always lead to a title.

Lou is also correct in stating that only time will tell if this was a good decision to go with 3RR or not. We can argue until we're blue in the face over that point, but only history will prove one side right or the other. I wasn't sure if going with 14 teams was the right decision or not and in some ways it was and in other ways it wasn't. Only time will tell.

I assume GG will touch on the other factors in his Point column that it's really not about the top picks; it's about those third round top picks coupled with the LT's, LJ's and SA's. That's what 3RR is designed to solve and to give more value to the later picks. We'll find out at the end of the year if 3RR distributed value more evenly this way or not.

From my perspective, I think 3RR gives the PERCEPTION to all owners that the playing field is more level and your draft spot is a little less important than it was before. I believe most people still want a high draft spot, but hopefully 3RR brings more value across the board.

Again, this thread was to introduce the fact that two owners will give two sides of 3RR. No one needs to win that argument, just point out the facts. Then we'll let consumers decide and the number of entrants we finish with in 2007 will be the ultimate answer to whether 3RR was good or not. Greg, I agree completely with your take on the matter. My (Lou's) intention was never to "win" any argument with anyone, or to show how 3RR is destined for failure. I simply wanted to discuss ALL possibilites. If I came off sounding negative, so what? I don't think you or Tom or Krause was offended in the least. Yet the residents on the boards did. They interpreted my criticism as some kind of personal attacks against their "baby", their progressive idea. That's a typical reaction around these parts and it sucks. Besides suppressing healthy debate, other - less vocal participants - stay away simply because they aren't interested in being dragged into the bickering. I know this for a fact and it has been expressed by others on these boards. I would also advise you that consensus opinion of a dozen regulars is not necessarily representative of the majority of the NFFC customers. Those who scream loudest do not always make the most sense, even if it's usually well intended. As far as your hope that 3RR helps to grow NFFC due to the perception that it levels the playing field, I will say that in my opinion, NFFC's growth problem to date has not been lack of 3RR so I'm not sure how helpful is will prove to be. But you're the boss and I know you only do what you feel is best. I'll be rooting for you and NFFC either way.

[ February 22, 2007, 12:33 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]