Planning Ahead For 2012 Classic League

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:35 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Just so we're clear with the numbers:

Current:
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes (5000/2500/1250): $175,000 (57%)
Overall prizes (100/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $130,600 (43%)
Total prizes: $305,600

Proposal A
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes: (5600/2800/1400): $196,000 (65%)
Overall prizes: (75/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $105,600 (35%)
Total prizes: $301,600

Proposal B
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes: (6000/3000/1500): $210,000 (70%)
Overall prizes: (60/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $90,600 (30%)
Total prizes: $300,600 No Glenn, I haven't taken it that far. There definitely won't be any reduction in payout totals from a percentage basis. I'm not sure why you would assume that. I haven't looked at how it would affect the other overall prizes, just trying to nail down the thought process on increasing league prizes and then appropriately nailing down the overall prizes. That's the first step here.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:40 am

If we went to $50,000 as a grand prize, we could definitely bump up the league prizes. I can do the math on 280 teams or 294 or even 308 and come up with a nice model, but the first step was getting approval from our NFFC die-hards that going under $100,000 wasn't the kiss of death. Again, I think we all agree that winning a 14-team league is very, very difficult and should be rewarded appropriately. I know most of you are around for the challenge and the shot at the $100,000 grand prize, but maybe we build this from the league prizes out.

Once we've come to a strong number for the league prizes, I can build the model out and see what grand prize we can achieve. I do agree that with a bigger second weekend that we can top last year's total. And who knows, maybe we accomplish both feats: A solid league prize for the Classic and a $75,000 or higher grand prize. Then we win all around.

Okay, let me toy with the numbers and show you some models. I'm glad we're on the same page and I think this is going to work. Here we come Classic, a new pay model.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:57 am

This is a little off subject for this thread, but turning my attention to the Primetime, would this type of strategy work for the 12-team format as well? I mean, the industry seems to be infatuated with the one big carrot and has been since the introduction of the WCOFF in 2004, but is it appealing for one person to win $200,000 and then have the next biggest prize drop to $20,000? Would higher league prizes be a better alternative in the 12-team format as well? Is that where the Primetime should be going?

I have several different models for the 12-team format. Getting to 4x for first place and 2x for second place makes the most sense, but then it makes it tough to compete for the largest carrot in the industry. But if 100+ owners make more money with higher first and second place league prizes, does that work or would all of you still like the highest grand prize possible?

Any feedback is good feedback. I'm trying to get my arms around the 12-team prize pool too, especially with more competitors sure to enter the field promising the biggest prizes in the industry. Thanks all.

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:50 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Just so we're clear with the numbers:

Current:
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes (5000/2500/1250): $175,000 (57%)
Overall prizes (100/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $130,600 (43%)
Total prizes: $305,600

Proposal A
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes: (5600/2800/1400): $196,000 (65%)
Overall prizes: (75/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $105,600 (35%)
Total prizes: $301,600

Proposal B
$1,400 entry
280 teams (20 leagues)
$392,000 total entry fees

League prizes: (6000/3000/1500): $210,000 (70%)
Overall prizes: (60/15/7.5/2.5/1.4x4): $90,600 (30%)
Total prizes: $300,600 No Glenn, I haven't taken it that far. There definitely won't be any reduction in payout totals from a percentage basis. I'm not sure why you would assume that. I haven't looked at how it would affect the other overall prizes, just trying to nail down the thought process on increasing league prizes and then appropriately nailing down the overall prizes. That's the first step here. [/QUOTE]Wasn't my intention to imply a decrease in total prize money -- I'm sure the "missing" $5,000 would be made up elsewhere (2nd overall? 9th or 10th place?). Just wanted to see the shift in league prize percentage from 57% to 70%...or even more!

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:41 pm

Originally posted by RedRyder:
I prefer higher league payouts.

I like the idea of 1st place getting more and I even might like 2nd place getting a small bump. Not sure I like 3rd place getting more. I just don't think it has to be across the board bumps for all places.

I also think $100,000 in itself is a good marketing tool. It just looks more impressive than $75,000 or any 5 digit number. But, I can see you can't offer that, so why not make it a $50,000 Grand prize and really increase league payouts.

It's all about the ROI to many players, you give killer ROI on a league level and still offer a nice Grand Prize on the overall level and you are carving out a very nice niche for the Classic. Something the other two contests won't have, incredible league payouts, yet a decent carrot for the Overall. Completely agree.

From a marketing standpoint, once you drop below six figures, most things sound the same. The difference between 50k and 75k is negligible. I'd much prefer higher league prizes than the extra 25k in grand prize.

Plus, you could then market how high the league prizes are if you play in the Classic. That sounds like a win-win to me.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 4:02 pm

I wonder if you diehards would prefer to have one of these leagues go one step further with the payouts?

I like the idea of having more money go to league payouts but what if the overall prize distribution was even more balanced?

Right now the payouts go 8 deep totaling 130,600 with the 100K at the top - 15000, 7500, 2500, 1400 x 4

Glenns Proposal B: 60K, 15000, 7500, 2500, 1400 x 4 (paying a reduced number totaling 90,600)

What if they went something like this:

40000, 20000, 10000, 7500, 5000, 2500 x 5 (this equals 95k)

You would pay out ten spots with each payout getting a rock solid reward for a top ten finish.

If you are going to shorten the big prize, I say why not balance these payouts more?

Do this with one of your two HS leagues and maybe more folks will play both?

Business angle: If more of these top ten have more money to spend next year, they will do just that.

[ February 02, 2012, 12:05 AM: Message edited by: Silver and Black ]

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:17 am

Originally posted by Bald is Beautiful:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Agree with all above, and I would be totally fine with 50K grand prize (still a VERY nice chunk of change!) and even higher league prizes than

$6,000
$3,000
$1,500

I just think once you go below the 6 digits, 50 and 75K are pretty much the same thing......play for SERIOUS league prizes instead of the extra 25K!

Agreed [/QUOTE]like it

Jersey Dawg · Post by **Jersey Dawg** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 1:43 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
This is a little off subject for this thread, but turning my attention to the Primetime, would this type of strategy work for the 12-team format as well? I mean, the industry seems to be infatuated with the one big carrot and has been since the introduction of the WCOFF in 2004, but is it appealing for one person to win $200,000 and then have the next biggest prize drop to $20,000? Would higher league prizes be a better alternative in the 12-team format as well? Is that where the Primetime should be going?

I have several different models for the 12-team format. Getting to 4x for first place and 2x for second place makes the most sense, but then it makes it tough to compete for the largest carrot in the industry. But if 100+ owners make more money with higher first and second place league prizes, does that work or would all of you still like the highest grand prize possible?

Any feedback is good feedback. I'm trying to get my arms around the 12-team prize pool too, especially with more competitors sure to enter the field promising the biggest prizes in the industry. Thanks all. Greg - Personally I would say YES. The chance to win $75K, $100K or $60K is still a chance to win big money. However, only one guy gets to hold that check. 3 guys in each league get to see winners payouts. Make those bigger and you make more people happy and more people get to justify returning.

Pete

Chi_Town_FEW · Post by **Chi_Town_FEW** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:36 am

Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
quote:Originally posted by Bald is Beautiful:
quote:Originally posted by BillyWaz:
Agree with all above, and I would be totally fine with 50K grand prize (still a VERY nice chunk of change!) and even higher league prizes than

$6,000
$3,000
$1,500

I just think once you go below the 6 digits, 50 and 75K are pretty much the same thing......play for SERIOUS league prizes instead of the extra 25K!

Agreed [/QUOTE]like it [/QUOTE]Agree.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 4:57 am

I'm listening and will show some numbers shortly. Got this little baseball thing I'm working on now,

but will return here soon with some actual numbers to present for the Classic.