Planning Ahead For 2012 Classic League

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:54 pm

I think it's obvious that opinions are all across the board here and I honestly can't say exactly what I'll do with the Classic at this point. I have some various financial models that could spice up the league prizes, but not enough for some, or keep the overall prizes strong while still making the league prizes lower than I'd like. I'll keep looking over everything and make a decision that I hope leads to a sellout in 2012.

While I appreciate all of the feedback, there really is no consensus among our die-hard veterans on how to grow the Classic outside of possibly offering it over both weekends, unlike what we did last year. It's very possible that I'm over-reacting during a lockout season and should give our model another chance to grow and excel. With more people now having more chances to play in this 14-team format, maybe 322 teams isn't such a longshot after all.

Tom and I will discuss some more and we'll keep taking in your suggestions into the process. Keep 'em coming. There is no doubt that we'll have plenty of draft times available over both weekends, so maybe this can still work. And yes, there will be offerings before -- and even after if demand warrants it -- the Thursday Night Game in Las Vegas. I think Thursday can be an ideal draft day out there as more folks now come into Las Vegas on Wednesday night to be there for drafts and the first game of the NFL season. Look for a draft schedule from us soon including that day of the four-day weekend.

Again, thanks all. I probably have a better mindset here on what I want to do and now I need to tighten up the shorts if I want to get it approved!!

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Feb 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Originally posted by Daren E:
PS -- I am also not a fan of drafting multiple "high stakes" (>$1K entry) leagues on different days or weekends competing for the same grand prize. Therefore, if that trend continues, I would just as soon ALL of the Classic prize money stay with the leagues, or at least with the 2 separate weekends, so everyone is competing with the same information for that money.

With it looking like a strong possibility of Wednesday-only FAAB all season AND some of my entry money competing against other teams that are drafting a week or more later, I'm getting a little less excited about the 2012 fantasy FB season. No tears yet, but I am definitely wearing a frown as I write this.

Sorry Daren, but I just don't see us being able to go back to one draft date, one draft time for the Classic or any of our other national contests. How could any of us compete when other competitors will continue to offer multiple draft dates and times? The genie is out of the bottle. It's like people asking me to stop taking Online Main Event entries because it was more fun when everyone was live at one of the three NFFC locations. I totally agree, those were fun days. But that model was busted years ago and now you either allow Online Main Event entries or you lose them to another contest that takes online entries. The purity of the Main Event won't fit back into the HSFF bottle, no matter how hard I try.

That being said, last year proved that the competition was tough for every league who drafted at every different date or time. Honestly, those who drafted before the Thursday Night Game probably benefitted by getting Graham and Sproles earlier than those people who watched them excel in the NFL Opener. Same with Brees. But either way, the competition is tough no matter when you draft and having multiple draft times helps us reach our goals and allows our owners a chance at multiple teams, which is what is/was driving our competitors as well.

Sorry man. That's probably worse news than hearing that AP suffered a torn ACL, but I'm just trying to be honest with ya before you have to plan for next year.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:53 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
Why don't we raise the entry fee by $100. Put the extra $1400 into the league prize. $1000 more goes to 1st $400 to second. This way the O/A prize stays at 100k and we get our $6000 1st place prize.

The additional $100 kind of works as a league side bet...

Everybody's happy all at the cost of a dinner out for a family of four

Okay, if we're going to solve our tough issues for the NFFC we might as well do them all at once!!! None of it is easy, but keeping the dialogue going on all of this maks the most sense.

Steve's suggestion here deserves merit. The competition is at $1,600 per team for 2012 and WCOFF was at $1,750 or $1,800 during its last season. We're at $1,400 for each contest now, kind of a lower price point but really not enough to make people play NFFC just for that reason. And of course the prizes look much different. So maybe it's time to consider the price point and attack this beast this way for both the 14-team and 12-team format.

I won't suggest a landing area, but help us out. Does it make sense to make both events now at $1,500 or $1,600 per team? Is that the sensible plan or is a lower price point still the way to go?? Boy, not an easy decision for any of us, but we've gone from $1,250 to $1,400 in 8 years. Maybe the market is telling us that higher entry fees with higher prizes is the way to go.

Thoughts? I'm open to suggestions.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:40 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:
Why don't we raise the entry fee by $100. Put the extra $1400 into the league prize. $1000 more goes to 1st $400 to second. This way the O/A prize stays at 100k and we get our $6000 1st place prize.

The additional $100 kind of works as a league side bet...

Everybody's happy all at the cost of a dinner out for a family of four

Okay, if we're going to solve our tough issues for the NFFC we might as well do them all at once!!! None of it is easy, but keeping the dialogue going on all of this maks the most sense.

Steve's suggestion here deserves merit. The competition is at $1,600 per team for 2012 and WCOFF was at $1,750 or $1,800 during its last season. We're at $1,400 for each contest now, kind of a lower price point but really not enough to make people play NFFC just for that reason. And of course the prizes look much different. So maybe it's time to consider the price point and attack this beast this way for both the 14-team and 12-team format.

I won't suggest a landing area, but help us out. Does it make sense to make both events now at $1,500 or $1,600 per team? Is that the sensible plan or is a lower price point still the way to go?? Boy, not an easy decision for any of us, but we've gone from $1,250 to $1,400 in 8 years. Maybe the market is telling us that higher entry fees with higher prizes is the way to go.

Thoughts? I'm open to suggestions. [/QUOTE]I believe this to be a good solution.

However, I'd keep the increase to $100 as it would keep your event below market cost while still giving you increased funds to make the prize structure more attractive.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:49 am

Glenn, do you think anyone comparison shops price point wise? We're all aware of our outlay to a degree but isn't the carrot and game play the driver whether someone enters ? I think most think about what we're going to win over what it just cost us.

Maybe the new player in the arena just sees the $7000 league prize and 200k overall and doesn't notice the $1400 or $1550 or $1600 price tag.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:52 am

Greg...I am totally priced out of the Main Events, and at $900 I am now priced out of the live Auctions. I may be the only person I notice saying this, but I can't be the only one that feels this way. Continually raising the entry fees has to push more people away than just me. I have become an online event only person due to price increases. Again, I'm out of the Main Events, so take my opinion as an outsider, but l do think raising the entry fees each year isn't the way to go.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:00 am

Originally posted by Quahogs:
Glenn, do you think anyone comparison shops price point wise? We're all aware of our outlay to a degree but isn't the carrot and game play the driver whether someone enters ? I think most think about what we're going to win over what it just cost us.

Maybe the new player in the arena just sees the $7000 league prize and 200k overall and doesn't notice the $1400 or $1550 or $1600 price tag. I'm not sure that's true Steve. I have to believe not all of us play multiple leagues and multiple contests, not all of us have the resources or family budget to do so, and not all of us can rationalize laying out $1400, $1500, etc. to play in a fantasy league.

I think back to when I first considered joining the NFBC for the first time. I thought long and hard about whether I was willing to lay out that much money for this hobby. I laugh now considering what my fantasy budget has grown to, but at the time it was a real consideration. I'm sure there are many that have a limit to what they're willing to spend, some who may save all year for their one Classic entry. I think they have to be considered as well, especially if growth and attracting new players is an end goal to what we're debating here.

Quahogs · Post by **Quahogs** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:15 am

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
quote:Originally posted by Quahogs:
Glenn, do you think anyone comparison shops price point wise? We're all aware of our outlay to a degree but isn't the carrot and game play the driver whether someone enters ? I think most think about what we're going to win over what it just cost us.

Maybe the new player in the arena just sees the $7000 league prize and 200k overall and doesn't notice the $1400 or $1550 or $1600 price tag. I'm not sure that's true Steve. I have to believe not all of us play multiple leagues and multiple contests, not all of us have the resources or family budget to do so, and not all of us can rationalize laying out $1400, $1500, etc. to play in a fantasy league.

I think back to when I first considered joining the NFBC for the first time. I thought long and hard about whether I was willing to lay out that much money for this hobby. I laugh now considering what my fantasy budget has grown to, but at the time it was a real consideration. I'm sure there are many that have a limit to what they're willing to spend, some who may save all year for their one Classic entry. I think they have to be considered as well, especially if growth and attracting new players is an end goal to what we're debating here. [/QUOTE]Understood. I think perceptually the NFFC has to make sure it matches up. If someone is going to make a commitment to pay $1400, $1600 isn't a stretch when you're looking at substantially higher prizes.

It's not about whether the ME (for any contest) is in reach financially or not. But for those who commit - the prizes have to be closer. IMO

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:26 am

Originally posted by Diesel:
Greg...I am totally priced out of the Main Events, and at $900 I am now priced out of the live Auctions. I may be the only person I notice saying this, but I can't be the only one that feels this way. Continually raising the entry fees has to push more people away than just me. I have become an online event only person due to price increases. Again, I'm out of the Main Events, so take my opinion as an outsider, but l do think raising the entry fees each year isn't the way to go. I hear ya Marc and it's tough from my standpoint to keep up with the competition and yet still keep your consumers front and center. We haven't raised the prices each year, as you know. When we started in 2004 our Main Event entry fee was $1,250 and WCOFF's entry fee was $1,250. They grew to $1,750 or $1,800 and we increased to $1,400 over 8 years. Now the price point for our competition is $1,600 and we're still at $1,400. As Steve states, people look at the prizes of similar contests and say "why did I only win this much" when they forget that at $200 per team that's $2,400 per league that isn't part of the distribution/income and that makes us look cheap.

So while we understand and certainly appreciate what you are saying, we can't sit back while others are aggressive. And again, we've gone up only $150 over 8 years, so the next step is even harder for us. I'm looking for feedback and if you really think we'll sell out everything and grow to be the biggest and baddest game around by being the lowest priced HSFF game, then I'll listen. I understand.

But as you say, since 2004 we've also offered a $350 national contest and more and more satellite leagues. We'll offer $60 DCs and $150 Slow Drafts this year with overall prizes. We don't want to price anyone out of our market, but we also want to be a leader in the Main Event area. Does a price increase help us achieve that or hurt us? That's what I'm looking for.

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:29 am

i think if you play for 1400 then you would play for 1500. my thought is make it 1500 with 75k grand prise and load up the league payout. not sure what it would look like but i think it might make 1st place 7,500 ( calling koq ). the grand prise at 75k is just fine. lets face it , you got to be real lucky at the right time to bring it home. plus the more people getting payouts means money thrown back in the pot in further years.

you can rip me. im a big boy.