Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Captain Hook:
Greg - can you give us the KDS figures JUST for the main event? How do you know that if someone had 1-14 that was their choice as opposed to never touching it?
If you don't have the time to break down the raw data send it to me and I will do it tomorrow. I don't know that they left it at 1-14 or set it at 1-4. I can just tell you that 330 teams had their KDS at 1-14. [/QUOTE]LOL...wow, unless this data includes Satellites (which I'm sure it must), 8 participants set their KDS and didn't bother to show up. This further emphasizes the need to educate the masses about 3RR/KDS if its enacted. It would be my guess, without a strong concerted effort, that a large percentage of the participants would show up at the draft and be totally taken aback when round 3 started with slot 14.
3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
It all will still come down to one's ability to rate players, utilize individually created draft strategies and execute. I am still a firm believer that a solid drafter can be comeptitive year in and year out regardless of what slot they start from.
Our #1 Lifetime points leader drafted from the 8, 1 and 5 slots over the past three years. Our #3 has come from the 7,12 and 13 hole which gives evidence that it is the quality of the drafter that far overrides draft location.
Whatever you choose Greg doesn't really matter to me or I would assume many others. We will come back for your service, the quality of competition and our love for the high stakes experience.
Our #1 Lifetime points leader drafted from the 8, 1 and 5 slots over the past three years. Our #3 has come from the 7,12 and 13 hole which gives evidence that it is the quality of the drafter that far overrides draft location.
Whatever you choose Greg doesn't really matter to me or I would assume many others. We will come back for your service, the quality of competition and our love for the high stakes experience.
Never do card tricks for the people you play poker with.
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Greg Ambrosius
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3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
Originally posted by BONGIZMO:
It all will still come down to one's ability to rate players, utilize individually created draft strategies and execute. I am still a firm believer that a solid drafter can be comeptitive year in and year out regardless of what slot they start from.
Our #1 Lifetime points leader drafted from the 8, 1 and 5 slots over the past three years. Our #3 has come from the 7,12 and 13 hole which gives evidence that it is the quality of the drafter that far overrides draft location.
Whatever you choose Greg doesn't really matter to me or I would assume many others. We will come back for your service, the quality of competition and our love for the high stakes experience.
That's what I like to hear Scott. I agree, the best drafters will excel from any spot and this concept CERTAINLY won't hurt them. I think just the perception of fairness will help the NFFC if we choose to go this way and it's another innovative way to stand out. We all know the 14-team format is perfect for serious gamers, but it's also a possible hold back for some folks who don't want to get in as they don't want to draft from the back. This would level the playing field from all spots and possibly even create excitement from the back slots.
If someone can show me a REAL downside to this, I'll drop the conversation right now. But I think we've proven some interesting facts today and hopefully next week's mock draft will shed some more light on the situation. I'm certainly not afraid to try something new that helps the contest and I think this qualifies under both categories. But then again, what do I know?
It all will still come down to one's ability to rate players, utilize individually created draft strategies and execute. I am still a firm believer that a solid drafter can be comeptitive year in and year out regardless of what slot they start from.
Our #1 Lifetime points leader drafted from the 8, 1 and 5 slots over the past three years. Our #3 has come from the 7,12 and 13 hole which gives evidence that it is the quality of the drafter that far overrides draft location.
Whatever you choose Greg doesn't really matter to me or I would assume many others. We will come back for your service, the quality of competition and our love for the high stakes experience.
That's what I like to hear Scott. I agree, the best drafters will excel from any spot and this concept CERTAINLY won't hurt them. I think just the perception of fairness will help the NFFC if we choose to go this way and it's another innovative way to stand out. We all know the 14-team format is perfect for serious gamers, but it's also a possible hold back for some folks who don't want to get in as they don't want to draft from the back. This would level the playing field from all spots and possibly even create excitement from the back slots.
If someone can show me a REAL downside to this, I'll drop the conversation right now. But I think we've proven some interesting facts today and hopefully next week's mock draft will shed some more light on the situation. I'm certainly not afraid to try something new that helps the contest and I think this qualifies under both categories. But then again, what do I know?
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
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RED RUM RED RUM RED RUM
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He who steps to me in 2005, you better realize you dont have enough jive..... TURKEY!
3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
Greg,
I am all for this, but if you were asking for downsides, these are the only ones I can think of.
-I wonder about the years where there is not a massive measurable distance or drop off after the top couple players of the draft. You may then have people whining "hey, those guys who drafted 11-14 had a huge advantage!"
-The educating of this concept to new NFFC members and even current NFFC members who have no idea this discussion is even going on here on this board.
-The overall complaining and excuse making about the format that invariably comes from those who struggle. Those who will say "I truly did not understand how this 3RR/KDS worked and now have no chance to compete because I slotted my preferences all wrong..."
Now I do not really agree with any of these. I am just listing the only things I can come up with that might be a problem. I do think 3RR/KDS works better on years like this one and last where there is such a clearly dominant player or 2, but I agree with Teds Cracked Head in his point about the many years that this is not the case. Does 3RR/KDS work as well during those seasons?
I am all for this, but if you were asking for downsides, these are the only ones I can think of.
-I wonder about the years where there is not a massive measurable distance or drop off after the top couple players of the draft. You may then have people whining "hey, those guys who drafted 11-14 had a huge advantage!"
-The educating of this concept to new NFFC members and even current NFFC members who have no idea this discussion is even going on here on this board.
-The overall complaining and excuse making about the format that invariably comes from those who struggle. Those who will say "I truly did not understand how this 3RR/KDS worked and now have no chance to compete because I slotted my preferences all wrong..."
Now I do not really agree with any of these. I am just listing the only things I can come up with that might be a problem. I do think 3RR/KDS works better on years like this one and last where there is such a clearly dominant player or 2, but I agree with Teds Cracked Head in his point about the many years that this is not the case. Does 3RR/KDS work as well during those seasons?
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Greg Ambrosius
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3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
Trust in me, Renman, trust in me. If Tom and I can't get the message out on KDS or 3RR, then we deserve to fail and hear those criticisms. I trust we'll have a great off-season of educating ahead of us if we go this way.
You have it wrong: This is not a one-year fix. And it's not solving world peace, just adding another dimension to what is already a great, great, competitive game. You can still win from any spot in the draft, but I'm REALLY trying to make that possible because 14 spots is a lot of spots!!!
You have it wrong: This is not a one-year fix. And it's not solving world peace, just adding another dimension to what is already a great, great, competitive game. You can still win from any spot in the draft, but I'm REALLY trying to make that possible because 14 spots is a lot of spots!!!
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
Twitter: @GregAmbrosius
3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
For the serious, informed FF Player 3RR/KDS has positives that probably out weigh the negatives. I believe you may have ingested a little too much of the 3RR/KDS Kool-Aid by saying "This would level the playing field from all spots..." I absolutely believe it will improve the late draft slots and marginally hurt draft spots 1-3 in 2007. I also believe it will make spots 5 and 6 and possibly 4 less attractive than a normal serpentine. I know some have said these spots move up in the 4th round so that offsets moving down in round 3. But you can't have it both ways. If moving down in round 3 and moving up in round 4 is viewed as a negative for slots 1-3 than it isn't consistent to than say it isn't a negative for slots 4-6.
Possibly your largest challenge will be convincing the novice or newcomer to NFFC that this change is in their best interest. Again, I believe it probably is, but they no longer will have the opportunity to "gain an advantage" by falling into the 1st or 2nd slot. And quite honestly, if they viewed being at the back of the pack as a negative; I'm not sure this change will overcome that. Also, I would be willing to bet, regardless of what literature is provided or what is verbally communicated to participants, on draft day many will be shocked to learn round 3 starts with slot 14. Oh, "I didn't know you meant that...", "but I have pick #1, it should be my turn..", "huh..did I miss a round..." etc, etc.
Also, as previously stated, I'm not convinced that 3RR/KDS is as fluid from year to year as it would have been from 2005 to 2006 and will be from 2006 to 2007. Having said that, I believe it is worthy of additional scrutiny. I'm just not sure "passing the Kool-Aid to the Choir" will prove much. Although I will have interest in the results.
Possibly your largest challenge will be convincing the novice or newcomer to NFFC that this change is in their best interest. Again, I believe it probably is, but they no longer will have the opportunity to "gain an advantage" by falling into the 1st or 2nd slot. And quite honestly, if they viewed being at the back of the pack as a negative; I'm not sure this change will overcome that. Also, I would be willing to bet, regardless of what literature is provided or what is verbally communicated to participants, on draft day many will be shocked to learn round 3 starts with slot 14. Oh, "I didn't know you meant that...", "but I have pick #1, it should be my turn..", "huh..did I miss a round..." etc, etc.
Also, as previously stated, I'm not convinced that 3RR/KDS is as fluid from year to year as it would have been from 2005 to 2006 and will be from 2006 to 2007. Having said that, I believe it is worthy of additional scrutiny. I'm just not sure "passing the Kool-Aid to the Choir" will prove much. Although I will have interest in the results.
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ultimatefs
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3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
Trust in me, Renman, trust in me. If Tom and I can't get the message out on KDS or 3RR, then we deserve to fail and hear those criticisms. I trust we'll have a great off-season of educating ahead of us if we go this way.
You have it wrong: This is not a one-year fix. And it's not solving world peace, just adding another dimension to what is already a great, great, competitive game. You can still win from any spot in the draft, but I'm REALLY trying to make that possible because 14 spots is a lot of spots!!! exactly.
The only time #14 will be the #1 slot in hindsight is when some rookie/2nd yr guy drafted there goes LT that year.
The NEXT year, everyone will want him #1, so one would be a fool to think that #14 would be best again.
What you will see is Ted's numbers more evenly distributed over the years.
And they will never come out even as there are way too many injuries in FB and always 2-3 Colston's each year that have an impact from a late slot that you can't attribute to a slot.
What you will also see is more teams in the hunt longer. 66 now? Try 85-100 next year at this point. That right there will be a marketing coup for NFFC imo.
The cream of the crop will always rise to the top, even in this method.
What won't happen from know on is a creamer won't get R.Wayne at pick #3 to go with LT and a creamer that picks 13th won't have to fight tooth and nail for every point and have just about the perfect season to do well.
Lastly, I have been designing fantasy sports games since I was six years old. The quality of the owner in the NFFC is much higher than in any league ever run.
Because of this fact, rules need to be tweaked because the quality of the owners exposes the flaws faster as the game evolves as compared to other games and contests.
There are too many advantages at this level of play with having a top pick. 3rr levels it out better, all factors considered.
The way in which Greg/Tom have handled changes has been ideal IMO. This is going to be a monster in 10 years.
Trust in me, Renman, trust in me. If Tom and I can't get the message out on KDS or 3RR, then we deserve to fail and hear those criticisms. I trust we'll have a great off-season of educating ahead of us if we go this way.
You have it wrong: This is not a one-year fix. And it's not solving world peace, just adding another dimension to what is already a great, great, competitive game. You can still win from any spot in the draft, but I'm REALLY trying to make that possible because 14 spots is a lot of spots!!! exactly.
The only time #14 will be the #1 slot in hindsight is when some rookie/2nd yr guy drafted there goes LT that year.
The NEXT year, everyone will want him #1, so one would be a fool to think that #14 would be best again.
What you will see is Ted's numbers more evenly distributed over the years.
And they will never come out even as there are way too many injuries in FB and always 2-3 Colston's each year that have an impact from a late slot that you can't attribute to a slot.
What you will also see is more teams in the hunt longer. 66 now? Try 85-100 next year at this point. That right there will be a marketing coup for NFFC imo.
The cream of the crop will always rise to the top, even in this method.
What won't happen from know on is a creamer won't get R.Wayne at pick #3 to go with LT and a creamer that picks 13th won't have to fight tooth and nail for every point and have just about the perfect season to do well.
Lastly, I have been designing fantasy sports games since I was six years old. The quality of the owner in the NFFC is much higher than in any league ever run.
Because of this fact, rules need to be tweaked because the quality of the owners exposes the flaws faster as the game evolves as compared to other games and contests.
There are too many advantages at this level of play with having a top pick. 3rr levels it out better, all factors considered.
The way in which Greg/Tom have handled changes has been ideal IMO. This is going to be a monster in 10 years.
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.
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Gordon Gekko
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3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
best thing about KDS 3RR is that i can't get on eddie gillis anymore for only having success by getting his luckyass early draft slots.
KDS 3RR will take that crutch away from eddie and many others.
KDS 3RR will take that crutch away from eddie and many others.
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3RR/KDS, What Do You Think?
I've run my initial rankings (on the basis of an '07 draft), and they yield an outcome that I think will surprise a lot of people.
No doubt in my mind that preferences will be all over the board once everyone maps out their draft plan. Thinking how it might come out is one thing, actually mapping it out is quite something different. Should be fun.
If anyone not in the mock is curious, PM me and I'll send you my rank if you keep them confidential for now (I don't want to influence any of the other mockers by making them public until we're all set).
[ November 29, 2006, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]
No doubt in my mind that preferences will be all over the board once everyone maps out their draft plan. Thinking how it might come out is one thing, actually mapping it out is quite something different. Should be fun.
If anyone not in the mock is curious, PM me and I'll send you my rank if you keep them confidential for now (I don't want to influence any of the other mockers by making them public until we're all set).
[ November 29, 2006, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]