Kahuna contest not doing well

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:15 am

I saw on thier messege board that they have 6 to 7 leagues (12 per league) and expect the jackpot at $17,000 - $20,000.

lichtman · Post by **lichtman** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:45 am

Look what I found on the same message board!

Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:44 am Post subject: Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post
Here's where the pot odds math fails you when there are so few leagues:

At Kahuna, with 12 teams per league, and a $1350 entry fee, there will be $16,200 in the "pot" for each league.

If this were a league run privately by a group of friends, the first prize payout would likely be $12,000 (75% rule of thumb).

So if you are a league winner, you are giving up $7000 in order to get a 1:12 or 1:14 chance to win $17k-$20k. You are giving up $7000 for an expected value of no more than $1500. At NFFC, you're giving up a little more ($8125) for what looks like an expected value of more than $3500 in expected value.

The NFFC (fantasyfootballchampionship.com) has a lower entry fee, but a higher grand prize/number of leagues ratio.

Kahuna is $20k for 7 leagues ($2857 per league) and NFFC most likely $100k for 15 leagues ($6667 per league). That difference is a lot more than you would expect given there are only 2 more teams per league. The Kahuna grand prize is 1/6th of the entry fees, whereas NFFC will end up around 40%. That's a hell of a vig you're taking there, Kahuna.

Its your choice, you can pay more and get less, or pay less and get more.

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:24 am

As stated above: If this were a league run privately by a group of friends, the first prize payout would likely be $12,000 (75% rule of thumb).

What “local” leagues are you playing in? In my leagues we pay some fee ($100-120) to a stat service and that’s it. Who ever heard of an administrative fee for a local league? That’s insane. Local league paybacks should always be over 90%.

That’s always been my problem with CDM, they rake about 50% of the pot and you have to invest $400-500 just to stay competitive.

The original payback for the NFFC was close to an amazing 73% (assuming that the number of referrals is equal to the number of teams with partners). That also assumes that the good folks at the hotels simply donate the space and staff time and other resources are free. Even with sponsorship thrown in the NFFC certainly could not be mistaken as having an end goal of turning a profit as its primary motivation. You can’t say that for any other contest like this.

Given that this league will likely have a payback over 80%, anyone that passes it up simply has no grasp of the concept of expected value.

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:27 am

Our event is still taking place, yes with a reduced overall prize and yes with less than 408 total teams. Same holds true for the NFFC so I find it amazing that people will try to make things sound like the sky is falling.

So to clarify, yes we have much less than the 408 we were hoping for. Yes, we will lose lots of money on this, yes we will still have our event with over 150 people in Vegas, yes we will still have Refrigerator Perry and Andre Reed, yes we will still have the Poker event and yes, we will continue to hold the event in Las Vegas for our customers and the ones that want to join us each year.

I just posted a reply to whomever Oobi&Grampu
posted on our board and here is the info in it's entirety.

Feel free to email me if you have any questions or comments.

The NFFC does not have a lower entry fee than Kahuna Sports.

The cost is $1250 for one person. An Extra $100 for a second person and no hotel room. If you want to compare apples to apples, then please do so.

So, not sure where your math comes in nor who you are but you should really check your numbers before posting info like this.

I really wish people like this would get their facts straight before posting and also understand all the costs involved with putting on these events. This isn't your local "buddy" league.

Our people prefer playing with us because they prefer a 12 team league versus a 14 team league, more league prizes, better scoring system and they trust going with a company that has been running quality leagues on the net for the last nine years compared to a once a year gig for the NFFC.

So, if you want to get down to brass tax, Kahuna Sports gives more for less per league than NFFC and we also pay the fourth team $500, last I checked the NFFC only pays top three.

See you in Vegas.

[ August 25, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: James Mesick ]

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:42 am

No offense to James, but if I were the admin of this board I would delete the above post because:

(1) It promotes an event that at least in theory is a direct competitor of the NFFC. I don’t believe the NFFC board is the proper venue for such promotion.
(2) The post makes negative cogitations toward the NFFC. Sure freedom of speech and all that, but if it were MY board I would not allow content such as this.

Perhaps in all fairness this entire thread should be removed. I don’t believe this board needs to waste time discussing other events, either from a positive or negative perspective.

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:45 am

Nnoy, I fully agree. Greg and I are both trying to make our events as successful as possible and some people have no idea of the costs involved. I appreciate your post on the hotel costs and such and really wish people would think these things through before they start a pissing match.

Good luck in the NFFC and you are always welcome at our house as well.

khandy29 · Post by **khandy29** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:49 am

no, actually i think you should leave the post up as we all know Tom & Greg have never bad mouthed another league and thats because they dont have to. When you run a class business it speaks for itself and if after year one you have a better business than someone at year 9 it is very apparent which side would have the sour grapes. We all invested in this b/c we did the research and the numbers speak for themselves.

lichtman · Post by **lichtman** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:13 am

When I said 75%, I meant just for the Super Bowl champ. Most leagues have second place/regular season winner/weekly high score prizes as well.

Walla Walla · Post by **Walla Walla** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:15 am

James Mesick, Out of no respect to you but I was
wondering what your planning on doing for a living next year???

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:23 am

I understand James wants ot defend his service, but he is putting the "ass" in class with his post. Coming onto another leagues board and calling it a "1 year gig"?

I understand wanting to defend, but being this classless is ridiculous. And this guy wonders why he is losing people to other contests.

Greg & Tom, keep up the good work and just so you know, I think I speak for everyone when I say... "We got your back!"