Kahuna contest not doing well

nnoy · Post by **nnoy** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:23 am

Walla,

I’m sure James like most “industry” guys actually has a “real” job on the side. Only a few get to live the dream (and you have to move to places like Iola to do it (no offense to the Krause guys.))

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:47 am

This league will have an 80-90% return rate next year. Along with new entries from word of mouth, and other leagues folding. What kills me is that other leagues that are doing MUCh worse than most others with their lack of entries, don't try and join up with NFFC, or at least sell their entries to NFFC and give their customers a great shot at great prize money. Some business' will rather go down with the ship rather than board another cruise-liner and head towards the promised land(prosperity).

[ August 25, 2004, 02:48 PM: Message edited by: Diesel ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:49 am

I have no intention of deleting this thread just because a competitor is getting extra mileage out of our traffic. James posted the status of his contest on his web site yesterday and I saw it just like Ico did. Ico did a little analysis from what he saw and that's fine. Bottom line is both games are different, the prize structures are different and it's apparent some people like that game/event and some like ours. I'm happy to report that more like ours right now.

I don't mean to let the cat out of the bag, James, but the bottom line is our folks should know that we talked over the weekend several times about different things and we certainly were honest with each other about the tough times in the high stakes market. We shared our actual totals and talked about some revenue-sharing ideas. We agreed to move on separately, but everyone should know that James and I have a good relationship.

That being said, I've said how many teams we have and right now it's over 190 for the NFFC with our goal of 210 or higher clearly in sight. James admits that he will have 150 people in Vegas, but likely 60-72 teams drafting live. There is a difference in that wording.

As everyone knows, I'm the president of the Fantasy Sports Trade Association and I don't wish bad luck on any business, whether they're competing with me or others in magazines, online or in contests. I want everyone to do well and that includes Kahuna Sports. Every prize structure and contest structure is different and consumers will ultimately decide which one they'll spend their hard-earned money on. And if they like the giveaways, the game format, the customer service and the comraderie among other competitors, they'll join and be loyal to you for a long, long time.

That's my business plan and worrying about my competitors just isn't the best use of my time right now. Best of luck everyone and thanks for being loyal to the NFFC.

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:04 am

I'm sitting here looking at a signed picture of Gino Marchetti that I received for entering this contest. As I read the fantasy magazines that I've received for signing up for this contest. As I'm preparing to meet Otis Anderson at draft day. The NFFC is as solid and honest as any league I've looked into. After the revision of prize money, I've seen about 99% rate of teams staying in. I guess I'm not the only one with an eye for success.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:20 am

James, some time ago you claimed on these boards that you had been doing live drafts in Vegas for something like 4-5 years (or was it longer?) - now you're claiming that you've been hosting 'quality' fantasy games for 9 years on the net. With 9 years of experience and a fanbase, what conclusions should we draw about your projected 408 vs. actually getting 60-72 people (about 17%) of your initial design of 408 entrants?

At 210 out of goal 600, Greg's achieving 35% of expected and all of this without the Fridge or a poker game... or 9 years of building a customer base with 'quality fantasy games.'

I have some vague conclusions, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the situation.

Thanks for your avid participation in the discussion - it's hard for someone to 'talk turkey' and be up front about their own plans. I don't even begin to question you're going to take a beating financially after having the guts to put it on the line in the first place.

Thanks,

Dave

KahunaSports · Post by **KahunaSports** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:46 am

Dave, our Internet leagues draw over 1000 people playing. Some are coming to Las Vegas as they have in the past. We asked our customers what they wanted in a high stakes game and that was the basis for our 408 teams and the prize structure. There will always be numbers and many people will look at the entry fee and prize and assume all the extra is going into someone's pocket. If people really understood the passion for which many of us do this, that is the reason why these events exist. If it was only about making money I believe I have better odds of putting it on black at the roulette table.

Many of our Internet customers cannot make the trip for many reasons nor afford the high entry fee. So, in order to reach new customers, advertising has to play a big part and as you know not all advertising is what the companies lay claim to.

With advertising, you never know what to expect. As was the case for Greg, neither of us expected multiple high stakes events to emerge this year.

That has obviously taken several hundred people away from both events as people have many more options to choose from.

Neither of our events are a perfect fit for everyone and people have the option of choosing where they play.

I wish we had gotten more, I wish Greg had gotten more but the truth is we are both still putting on our events, we are going to have a great time doing it and hopefully get many of these people to return next year because they had such a great time and enjoy doing live drafts.

So, I hope I at least helped some of you understand just in case you ever want to try this on your own. It's a lot of work, takes a thick skin and lots of cash from your own pocket.

Good luck to all of you in the NFFC.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:03 am

Nice thread. I've got to run to a dinner engagement soon. If I get enough time tonight, I'll weigh in on this.

JerseyPaul · Post by **JerseyPaul** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:13 am

My two cents....

This industry is in the beginning of it's "S" curve. With a low "cost of entry" there will be many start-ups. The ultimate survivors will be based on customer loyalty gained through early entry advantage (WCOFF), great customer service and perceived value.

Most of the early competitors (Lenny aside), understand that any discussion of the industry is good. Badmouthing a competitor, either by the event organizers or the players is not good for attracting new customers. Greg understands this better than anybody as he will not allow that on his boards and welcomes the competition to say their piece.

Over time volume will go up, prizes will go up, percent returns will go up and the survivors will make money and the players will be happy to spend it. Organizational expenses will go down as league management software is perfected, attorney's review is simpler because of recurring contracts and rules and longer term relationships with hotels and other suppliers will lower costs. Other sources of revenue will develop through sponsorships and advertising.

Someday this will become on par with the World Series of Poker.

TamuScarecrow · Post by **TamuScarecrow** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:52 am

Well said, JP.

johnbriganti · Post by **johnbriganti** » Wed Aug 25, 2004 10:54 am

Greg,

Has the Guest speaker in Chicago been announced?

John