Tim Tebow - Let's Talk

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
He's had a 50% completion rate or below in three of the four starts and he was at 40% in the half against the Chargers this season. That's pretty poor considering the league average is 61 percent. 4 total starts under his belt..... [/QUOTE]Agreed. It's a small sample size and that's part of the issue as well. And you're furthering my point with your edited info. There are definitely positives with Tebow that are contrasted by how amazingly awful he can look as represented by his poor completion percentage as well as all the sacks he took from a previously punch-less Miami defense last Sunday.

Again, just so I'm clear I'm on the fence with Tebow because I can't figure him out. So I'm neither pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow from an NFL perspective. From a fantasy perspective, he's getting nothing but love from me.

[ October 26, 2011, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

[thegambler]

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by thegambler:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
He's had a 50% completion rate or below in three of the four starts and he was at 40% in the half against the Chargers this season. That's pretty poor considering the league average is 61 percent. 4 total starts under his belt..... [/QUOTE]Agreed. It's a small sample size and that's part of the issue as well. And you're furthering my point with your edited info. There are definitely positives with Tebow that are contrasted by how amazingly awful he can look as represented by his poor completion percentage as well as all the sacks he took from a previously punch-less Miami defense last Sunday.

Again, just so I'm clear I'm on the fence with Tebow because I can't figure him out. So I'm neither pro-Tebow or anti-Tebow from an NFL perspective. From a fantasy perspective, he's getting nothing but love from me. [/QUOTE]only time will tell with him....he needs a lot of work and probably should still be riding the bench right now. much easier to ride the bench for a few years then to get thrown out there.

[King of Queens]

Aaron Brooks comes to mind. Lousy in real life, great for fantasy purposes.

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Aaron Brooks comes to mind. Lousy in real life, great for fantasy purposes. I'd agree with that to a point, Glenn. Brooks had outstanding physical ability. There wasn't a throw on the field he couldn't make. I was covering the Packers when they drafted him and he used to wow everyone with the throws he'd make in practice. He was dripping with talent and ability. Brooks' primary problems were a lack of focus and dedication. He was a goofy (though very likable) guy who just seemed real happy to be in the NFL. That was enough for him. So he never pushed himself to truly maximize his ability.

Tebow doesn't have anything close to Brooks' ability as a quarterback but he clearly has more drive and determination. Those are probably his greatest strengths along with his ability to lead. There's no denying his teammates like playing with him and he can get them energized. So I think Tebow has that intangible "It" factor that Brooks never possessed and it may be able to translate to the NFL level despite his obvious shortcomings.

I do agree that Tebow, like Brooks often did, finds a way to deliver for his fantasy owners regardless of how he looks on the field. From a fantasy perspective, we don't care how a guy looks, just whether he can get us the needed production. Brooks often did and there's no denying Tebow has thus far.

[liquidhippo]

Of course merely predicting that Tebow will fail doesn't make one a hater. It's the intensity, the fervor, the emotion with which some(not all) of these 'scouting' reports are delivered. They're so hyperbolic. Yes, Tebow needs to improve. Snaps from center need to be cleaner. His grasp of the offense needs to improve. He's got a long windup when throwing. Decision making needs to improve, etc. etc. But it doesn't stop there, some act as if they are personally offended that anyone would think that he could one day make it as a backup, 3rd string QB. I've watched the NFL for a long time, and the number of performances I've seen from 1st string QB's that are worse than Tebow's....I wouldn't be able to count them.
Yes, his performance gets ugly at times and he'll go through growing pains as he learns, but that's normal for young QB's.

[ October 26, 2011, 10:15 AM: Message edited by: Liquid Hippo ]

[renman]

I kind of feel bad for Tebow. I like him. think he is a good kid. Good roll model, something different from what we are used in todays sport world full of punks, criminals, self promoters, etc. He also is pretty up front about his spirituality and there are segments of todays society who resent that.

When someone gets built up like he has two things happen.

1- you get a massive following with blind passion.

2- you get a group of people who for some reason resent that player has this passionate following and gets tons of attention and they feel a need to tear him down.

It becomes polarizing. Only furthered by the media that covers and over analyzes his every move.

I think he ends up in a no win situation. While he is a tough kid, who plays hard, it is obvious (to me) that he is a QB with limited talent in the areas required to be a truly successful NFL QB. He also has a poor playing circumstance, an uncreative head coach, and expectations that are through the roof.

He also plays a brand of football that is very physical and will result in him taking a beating. He reminds me of a prize fighter with a good chin, a ton of heart, but is over matched.

The result is usually a beating. I root for him, but don't think it will end well.

[ October 26, 2011, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Renman ]

[fflmaster]

For me and EVERYONE else in fantasy football that picked him up, he just has to produce those 160 yards passing, 65 yards rushing and two tds (anyway he gets them)

Do I think Tebow will be long for the NFL as a qb? NO

Do I think he is good enough for a fantasy owner to win games weekly THIS YEAR? Absolutely

I think he produces top qb1 numbers for the immediate time, but teams will eventually figure out how to stop him.

He can't last long in the NFL with games like denver, but as long as he gives me another 9 weeks of fantasy points I don't care.

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by fflmaster:

He can't last long in the NFL with games like denver, but as long as he gives me another 9 weeks of fantasy points I don't care. Me neither.

[Sandman62]

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
How does he make things happen positively when his weaknesses are so obvious and apparent? The Miami game only provided more fuel for that debate. Maybe all the teams he's faced so far weren't very strong on defense?

2010
@ oak: 8-16-138 1 td pass.....8-78-1 td rushing(loss)
* OAK was a 7-7 team, 29th in run D, but 3rd in pass D. Go figure, he ran well, but passed like crap.

vs hou: 16-29-308 1 td 1 int pass....10-27-1 td rushing (won)
* HOU was a 5-10 team, 13th in run D, 32nd in pass D. Go figure, he passed well (loose use of the word "well", as 16-29 is only 55% and 1 passing TD is nothing special; but 308 yds was nice), but didn't run very well (2.7 YPC stinks!).

vs sd: 16-36-205 2 td 2 int pass....13-97-1 td rushing (loss)
* SD was 9-7, 4th in run D and 1st in pass D. He was understandably not very good passing, just 16-36 = 44%; obviously, barely breaking 200 yds is nothing special either.
However, SD's star LB, Stephen Cooper (team-leading 297 tackles from 2007-10), was placed on I/R after 14 games last year. And in addition to Tebow running well vs. the Chargers in week 17, in week 16 (also without Cooper), SD allowed the Bengals duo RBs of Benson/Scott to run for 102 yds and 1 TD. But in the prior two games to that, SF and KC were shut down running, for just 55 and 49 yards, respectively. (I don't have time to go back through more of SD's run D games prior to that, but one can assume they were pretty good if they were 4th overall at the end of the year - which included the last 2 above-average games.) IOW, maybe Tebow got to take advantage of a very good run D that was without their biggest playmaker that day?

2011
@ mia: 13-27-161 2 tds pass....8-65 rushing (won)
* MIA is currently 20th in run D, 20th in pass D, playing with a terrible backup QB and obviously more interested in obtaining Andrew Luck next year than winning games this year.

As nice a guy and as great a role model as he may be, perhaps we should wait til he's faced a few GOOD teams before annointing him the next Michael Vick? :rolleyes:

That said, with how bad DEN was last year, their schedule doesn't really present very many tough defenses the rest of the way. With 9 games left, he'll only face 2 top-10 pass defenses (using fantasy points against): NYJ and SD, though DET is also 11th; but he also will get 5 bottom-10 pass defenses: OAK, MIN, CHI, NE and BUF! . But easy pass defenses don't necessarily play into Tebow's strength, do they? [He's a much better runner than passer.]

Against the run, he'll again only see 2 top-10 defenses, but also 3 bottom-10s, and 4 mid-range. So he doesn't really have it as easy running, which is where he makes his mark.

I'm not a Tebow hater by any means. But I sure do think that 4 games spread out over 2 years vs. mostly bad defenses is too small a sampling size to conclude how great Tebow will be. Let's check back in a month or two.

[ October 26, 2011, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

[Tom Kessenich]

Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
How does he make things happen positively when his weaknesses are so obvious and apparent? The Miami game only provided more fuel for that debate. Maybe all the teams he's faced so far weren't very strong on defense? . [/QUOTE]Mike, I agree and have said it's a small sample size. That being said, the NFL this season is littered with suspect to flat-out awful defenses. There's only one big-time defense that I've seen so far this season and that's Baltimore and even the Ravens have been slaughtered once (by Tennessee). Lot of poor defense being played so far this season .