Originally posted by thegambler:
no matter who he beats there will be people to say: well, they must be a bad team. if he beats SD next week, people will say they, SD, are no good.
almost everyone thought the jets had/have a good def. hell, i thought the jets would kick their butts. but tebow found a way to win and score 19 pts. with bad play calling, bad wr's and bad rb's.
its almost like the coach's and managment want him to lose. i know that can't be true BUT trading away your best wr and then calling the game they called last night and the game before...has to make you wonder. Of course people will say SD is no good, because their not. They are 4-5 and have one of the worst HC in the league.
The Jets do have a good D. Not as good as Rex Ryan thinks they are but their track record proves they are more than a legit NFL defense. In fact, other than Denver's first and last possessions, they played tremendous defense all while getting no help from their offense.
McGahee was ineffective last night but has had a great year and has put up solid numbers until last night in every game in which he's played in full. I will agree that the WR's aren't anything special but that's a tougher discussion considering their QB is only completing 44% of his passes.
If the Broncos don't come out the next game and call the game like it was called the final five minutes last night, then they need to give Brady Quinn a shot. If they refuse to fully play to Tebow's strengths (which is clearly not pocket passing) then why even have him out there?
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
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The Franchise
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
im not a tebow hater but i just cant see this guy as a long term qb. people been saying that denver should let him play like he did on the last drive. well the jets were playing a 4-3 def all night. the last drive they went to a 3-4 def like tebow was going to beat them with his arm. the jets do not have a running game. sanchez is going backwards and denver does have a legit def. you cant hate the guy but i cant see how this guy will be around for long. after the game the look on elway was " what am i going to do now " i just cant get it into my thick head to buy in on tebow. Frank - I think a case can be made that the Jets have a much more talented team than the Broncos. Actually it's not even close.
You said that Sanchez is going backwards. Do you agree that Tebow at this point is a better QB than Sanchez?
You said Denver has a legit defense. Your not implying that their D is better than the Jets?
The Jets D is way better than the Broncos D on paper, but they couldn't stop Tebow on that last drive?
I knew the Broncos were going to win that game and when Tebow develops as a passer he is going to be lethal. Very difficult to game plan for him.
im not a tebow hater but i just cant see this guy as a long term qb. people been saying that denver should let him play like he did on the last drive. well the jets were playing a 4-3 def all night. the last drive they went to a 3-4 def like tebow was going to beat them with his arm. the jets do not have a running game. sanchez is going backwards and denver does have a legit def. you cant hate the guy but i cant see how this guy will be around for long. after the game the look on elway was " what am i going to do now " i just cant get it into my thick head to buy in on tebow. Frank - I think a case can be made that the Jets have a much more talented team than the Broncos. Actually it's not even close.
You said that Sanchez is going backwards. Do you agree that Tebow at this point is a better QB than Sanchez?
You said Denver has a legit defense. Your not implying that their D is better than the Jets?
The Jets D is way better than the Broncos D on paper, but they couldn't stop Tebow on that last drive?I knew the Broncos were going to win that game and when Tebow develops as a passer he is going to be lethal. Very difficult to game plan for him.
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.
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The Franchise
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Bullgod:
Where did all the tebow haters go? We are probably raping and pillaging a village.
I don't know if I'm considered a Tebow hater. I'm not, don't "hate" him. Seems like a great guy. Honestly i dont care if he's a good guy or a jerk and like all other football players I don't really care! Play the game hard and don't hurt anyone off the field. These are modern day gladiators who destroy there bodies for money, fame or glory. I don't have to live with them I turn off the tv and go back to my life, which doesn't include them!
Any way I look at it he still sucks as a QB. He may be 4-1 as a starter but the Broncos D won that game last night, not Tebow. Same can be said for the Chiefs game. So I'll take the hater tag. I don't know how in the world people see anything but a very bad quarterback here. Call him a gamer or a winner if you want but if he had a different defense or wasn't playing the inept J.E.T.S. offense they would have lost that game by 30!
You can't continually miss open receivers and go three and out. Eventually your team will be down big! Then the last five minutes of a game actually make a difference. If he had a different defense?
Inept Jets offense? OK, you might have that one right
If Tebow was on the 49ers or Ravens then I could go along with what your selling, but you sound like Tebow has the Steelers D from the 70's saving him.
He went up against a very good Jets D and managed to win the game (what counts). I won't disagree that he doesn't look pretty doing it.
Where did all the tebow haters go? We are probably raping and pillaging a village.
I don't know if I'm considered a Tebow hater. I'm not, don't "hate" him. Seems like a great guy. Honestly i dont care if he's a good guy or a jerk and like all other football players I don't really care! Play the game hard and don't hurt anyone off the field. These are modern day gladiators who destroy there bodies for money, fame or glory. I don't have to live with them I turn off the tv and go back to my life, which doesn't include them!
Any way I look at it he still sucks as a QB. He may be 4-1 as a starter but the Broncos D won that game last night, not Tebow. Same can be said for the Chiefs game. So I'll take the hater tag. I don't know how in the world people see anything but a very bad quarterback here. Call him a gamer or a winner if you want but if he had a different defense or wasn't playing the inept J.E.T.S. offense they would have lost that game by 30!
You can't continually miss open receivers and go three and out. Eventually your team will be down big! Then the last five minutes of a game actually make a difference. If he had a different defense?
Inept Jets offense? OK, you might have that one right
If Tebow was on the 49ers or Ravens then I could go along with what your selling, but you sound like Tebow has the Steelers D from the 70's saving him.
He went up against a very good Jets D and managed to win the game (what counts). I won't disagree that he doesn't look pretty doing it.
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.
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The Franchise
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
The problem with this is if he failed and or got hurt (and his style of play likely will get him hurt) your team would be crippled and it could take years for an NFL organization to recover from that kind of commitment to Tebow's style of offense.
This is the most germane point of your post.
A team in the NFL simply can't base their future on this style of quarterbacking. Going forward, they would need to draft and/or trade for players that fit this option scheme. That kind of commitment could stunt the critical development of young players at the other skill positions, particularly at Wide Receiver.
I think Tebow is a unique talent in many ways. But then what happens when Tebow gets hurt? Or falters? Or retires to pursue spiritual interests? Or is gone for any other reason? Would there be anyone else like him around to fill that role? If not, the organization could be set back for years.
I listened carefully to the pregame interview with John Elway on the NFL Network. He choose his words carefully. They are going with Tebow now because he undoubtedly gives the Broncos the best chance of winning right now. The kid is winning games, there is no denying that. But I did not get the feeling that this Hall of Fame QB is going to build his future team around an option offense. And I've seen no evidence to support the idea that Tebow can suddenly develop into an NFL caliber passer. The mechanics and the innate throwing skill just isn't there.
And by the way...I'm not a "hater" like so many Tebow worshipers like to tar and feather anybody else who may voice a dissenting opinion. I'm calling it like I see it, which everyone has the right to do. [/QUOTE]Worshipers? I may disagree with your opinion (which your entitled to) but that hardly makes me a Tebow worshiper.
Give the kid credit. He is winning games in the NFL which is very hard to do. Just ask Curtis Painter
quote:Originally posted by Renman:
The problem with this is if he failed and or got hurt (and his style of play likely will get him hurt) your team would be crippled and it could take years for an NFL organization to recover from that kind of commitment to Tebow's style of offense.
This is the most germane point of your post.
A team in the NFL simply can't base their future on this style of quarterbacking. Going forward, they would need to draft and/or trade for players that fit this option scheme. That kind of commitment could stunt the critical development of young players at the other skill positions, particularly at Wide Receiver.
I think Tebow is a unique talent in many ways. But then what happens when Tebow gets hurt? Or falters? Or retires to pursue spiritual interests? Or is gone for any other reason? Would there be anyone else like him around to fill that role? If not, the organization could be set back for years.
I listened carefully to the pregame interview with John Elway on the NFL Network. He choose his words carefully. They are going with Tebow now because he undoubtedly gives the Broncos the best chance of winning right now. The kid is winning games, there is no denying that. But I did not get the feeling that this Hall of Fame QB is going to build his future team around an option offense. And I've seen no evidence to support the idea that Tebow can suddenly develop into an NFL caliber passer. The mechanics and the innate throwing skill just isn't there.
And by the way...I'm not a "hater" like so many Tebow worshipers like to tar and feather anybody else who may voice a dissenting opinion. I'm calling it like I see it, which everyone has the right to do. [/QUOTE]Worshipers? I may disagree with your opinion (which your entitled to) but that hardly makes me a Tebow worshiper.
Give the kid credit. He is winning games in the NFL which is very hard to do. Just ask Curtis Painter
Winning isn't everything, but the will to win is.
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Tom Kessenich
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by The Franchise:
Give the kid credit. He is winning games in the NFL which is very hard to do.
Precisely. And from a fantasy perspective, he's one of the most consistent and reliable QBs you're going to find as the stats I provided demonstrate. I think that's extremely valuable - especially this season when so many insane things seem to occur on a weekly basis.
I'll say it again - we're all so focused on the things Tebow can't do he's not being given enough credit for the things he can do.
Give the kid credit. He is winning games in the NFL which is very hard to do.
Precisely. And from a fantasy perspective, he's one of the most consistent and reliable QBs you're going to find as the stats I provided demonstrate. I think that's extremely valuable - especially this season when so many insane things seem to occur on a weekly basis.
I'll say it again - we're all so focused on the things Tebow can't do he's not being given enough credit for the things he can do.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
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Tom Kessenich
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
Is 9/20 for 104 yards passing the test against a good pass defense? In terms of passing production absolutely not. It's pathetic. But more than 60 yards rushing, including a touchdown and leading the team to a victory while posting decent fantasy numbers against a strong defense is definitely passing the test in my opinion. . [/QUOTE]He posted horrible PASSING numbers against a strong PASSING defense (4th in passing points allowed). He posted nice rushing numbers against the team that allows the 22nd most fantasy points rushing. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]He led his team to another victory and he once again provided reliable fantasy production. I continue to be surprised at the lengths you'll go to in order to avoid acknowledging these two salient points.
I see you brought up the level of competition again in another post (again ignoring the fact he just beat a pretty darn good defense which you previously insisted he had to do ). That's fine and good but Tebow can't control that. He didn't set the schedule up nor did his fantasy owners. All they care about is whether they can count on him and thus far in EVERY one of his starts dating back to last season he's proven they can, and often at a high level. When you look at the number of QBs who have put up inferior production to Tebow's worst game so far this season, including multiple times, that type of reliability is critical.
You keep setting up the obstacles, Mike, and we'll see if Tebow keeps clearing them. So far he's cleared every one you've created for him.
[ November 19, 2011, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
Is 9/20 for 104 yards passing the test against a good pass defense? In terms of passing production absolutely not. It's pathetic. But more than 60 yards rushing, including a touchdown and leading the team to a victory while posting decent fantasy numbers against a strong defense is definitely passing the test in my opinion. . [/QUOTE]He posted horrible PASSING numbers against a strong PASSING defense (4th in passing points allowed). He posted nice rushing numbers against the team that allows the 22nd most fantasy points rushing. :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]He led his team to another victory and he once again provided reliable fantasy production. I continue to be surprised at the lengths you'll go to in order to avoid acknowledging these two salient points.
I see you brought up the level of competition again in another post (again ignoring the fact he just beat a pretty darn good defense which you previously insisted he had to do
). That's fine and good but Tebow can't control that. He didn't set the schedule up nor did his fantasy owners. All they care about is whether they can count on him and thus far in EVERY one of his starts dating back to last season he's proven they can, and often at a high level. When you look at the number of QBs who have put up inferior production to Tebow's worst game so far this season, including multiple times, that type of reliability is critical. You keep setting up the obstacles, Mike, and we'll see if Tebow keeps clearing them. So far he's cleared every one you've created for him.
[ November 19, 2011, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
And I continue to be amazed at how much your giddy gushing clouds your judgment as to the complete irrelevance of your first point (NFL victories) in a fantasy football league. But keep hammering that point home, as it only serves to prove my point about this guy all along - people WANT him to win and enjoy watching him. While that's all great, it doesn't add any fantasy points to your scores.
[ November 19, 2011, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
[ November 19, 2011, 09:02 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
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Tom Kessenich
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Sandman62:
And I continue to be amazed at how much your giddy gushing clouds your judgment as to the complete irrelevance of your first point (NFL victories) in a fantasy football league. But keep hammering that point home, as it only serves to prove my point about this guy all along - people WANT him to win and enjoy watching him. While that's all great, it doesn't add any fantasy points to your scores. Mike, the only points you're hammering home is you're adamant about ignoring Tebow's proven fantasy reliability and the fact he continues to lead the Broncos to victories. I'm struggling to find out why this is so difficult for you to accept and acknowledge.
Look, I'm having fun with a lot of the Tebow gushing so keep that in mind. I'm not convinced this thing can work long-term for the Broncos by any means and I continue to be amazed at what I'm watching with him. But it's definitely working so far now. I don't know how anyone can argue that at this point. And I'm amazed anyone would be questioning Tebow's fantasy reliability at this juncture. I'm just surprised you continue to fight so strenuously against these two pertinent facts.
And I continue to be amazed at how much your giddy gushing clouds your judgment as to the complete irrelevance of your first point (NFL victories) in a fantasy football league. But keep hammering that point home, as it only serves to prove my point about this guy all along - people WANT him to win and enjoy watching him. While that's all great, it doesn't add any fantasy points to your scores. Mike, the only points you're hammering home is you're adamant about ignoring Tebow's proven fantasy reliability and the fact he continues to lead the Broncos to victories. I'm struggling to find out why this is so difficult for you to accept and acknowledge.
Look, I'm having fun with a lot of the Tebow gushing so keep that in mind. I'm not convinced this thing can work long-term for the Broncos by any means and I continue to be amazed at what I'm watching with him. But it's definitely working so far now. I don't know how anyone can argue that at this point. And I'm amazed anyone would be questioning Tebow's fantasy reliability at this juncture. I'm just surprised you continue to fight so strenuously against these two pertinent facts.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by The Franchise:
quote:Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
im not a tebow hater but i just cant see this guy as a long term qb. people been saying that denver should let him play like he did on the last drive. well the jets were playing a 4-3 def all night. the last drive they went to a 3-4 def like tebow was going to beat them with his arm. the jets do not have a running game. sanchez is going backwards and denver does have a legit def. you cant hate the guy but i cant see how this guy will be around for long. after the game the look on elway was " what am i going to do now " i just cant get it into my thick head to buy in on tebow. Frank - I think a case can be made that the Jets have a much more talented team than the Broncos. Actually it's not even close.
You said that Sanchez is going backwards. Do you agree that Tebow at this point is a better QB than Sanchez?
You said Denver has a legit defense. Your not implying that their D is better than the Jets? The Jets D is way better than the Broncos D on paper, but they couldn't stop Tebow on that last drive?
I knew the Broncos were going to win that game and when Tebow develops as a passer he is going to be lethal. Very difficult to game plan for him. [/QUOTE]denver d is playing better than jets d right now. did you know that sanchez was going to throw that pick 6 ? cause thats the only way they won that game. b4 that last drive i think denver started in jets territory 6 times and came away with 3 points. its got alot to do with system. would sanchez or tebow be a better qb with the saints , pats or packers than sanchez would be. i didnt know you can teach a qb to hit a reciever that he miss by 15yds. lets get that same coach to teach other qb's that. if tebow was in the old west he couldnt hit a guy in a gunfight at 10 paces.
quote:Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
im not a tebow hater but i just cant see this guy as a long term qb. people been saying that denver should let him play like he did on the last drive. well the jets were playing a 4-3 def all night. the last drive they went to a 3-4 def like tebow was going to beat them with his arm. the jets do not have a running game. sanchez is going backwards and denver does have a legit def. you cant hate the guy but i cant see how this guy will be around for long. after the game the look on elway was " what am i going to do now " i just cant get it into my thick head to buy in on tebow. Frank - I think a case can be made that the Jets have a much more talented team than the Broncos. Actually it's not even close.
You said that Sanchez is going backwards. Do you agree that Tebow at this point is a better QB than Sanchez?
You said Denver has a legit defense. Your not implying that their D is better than the Jets?
The Jets D is way better than the Broncos D on paper, but they couldn't stop Tebow on that last drive?I knew the Broncos were going to win that game and when Tebow develops as a passer he is going to be lethal. Very difficult to game plan for him. [/QUOTE]denver d is playing better than jets d right now. did you know that sanchez was going to throw that pick 6 ? cause thats the only way they won that game. b4 that last drive i think denver started in jets territory 6 times and came away with 3 points. its got alot to do with system. would sanchez or tebow be a better qb with the saints , pats or packers than sanchez would be. i didnt know you can teach a qb to hit a reciever that he miss by 15yds. lets get that same coach to teach other qb's that. if tebow was in the old west he couldnt hit a guy in a gunfight at 10 paces.
THIS IS THE BUSINESS WE HAVE CHOSEN
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Fourslot40
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
I found this Broncos game perplexing for one reason. I'm a Jets fan, but I have to admit that I was pulling for Tebow for various reasons.
What I found funny was that everyone is harping on Tebow's every move during the Jets game and there is Mark Sanchez throwing pick six'es and having to attempt a comeback. The golden boy Sanchez who was a high draft pick can't get out of his own way during his career.
Every says that Tebow is only good because his team keeps him in ballgames. Could we not say the same for Sanchez during his playoff runs? Yet, Sanchez has been getting a pass for a few years now. Meanwhile, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Tim Tebow are succeeding in a shorter window.
Hate Tebow all you want. He's everything that we ask for in a competitor. He is exceeding expectations under immense media pressure and criticism that has NEVER been seen before. He's the most mentally tough athlete I have ever seen. Good for him... I'll root for that guy everytime.
[ November 19, 2011, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]
What I found funny was that everyone is harping on Tebow's every move during the Jets game and there is Mark Sanchez throwing pick six'es and having to attempt a comeback. The golden boy Sanchez who was a high draft pick can't get out of his own way during his career.
Every says that Tebow is only good because his team keeps him in ballgames. Could we not say the same for Sanchez during his playoff runs? Yet, Sanchez has been getting a pass for a few years now. Meanwhile, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Tim Tebow are succeeding in a shorter window.
Hate Tebow all you want. He's everything that we ask for in a competitor. He is exceeding expectations under immense media pressure and criticism that has NEVER been seen before. He's the most mentally tough athlete I have ever seen. Good for him... I'll root for that guy everytime.
[ November 19, 2011, 09:23 AM: Message edited by: Fourslot40 ]