Tim Tebow - Let's Talk

TR · Post by TR » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:55 am

I dont like or dislike Tim ,I just wonder if the reason he looks so bad for 55 minutes and then good for 5 is more the defenses going into prevent d(which we all know prevents you from winning)?the team is 7-1 with him as a qb congrats but I wonder if he will show the same regression the bucs. showed this year.The bucs won a handful of games last year on what seemed to be sandlot stuff.I mean the Broncos are a botched onside kick(miami)missed fg(chargers)2 interception inside the 25yd line(vikings) and a rb running out of bounds and fumbling(bears) from being 3-5.Cant take wins away but there should be some red flags there.
Didnt kyle orton win like 8 games for the bears when grossman went down only to lose his starting job the 1st week of the playoffs?How many wins did he have as a rookie?Thats right it was the bears defense not him.
keep up all the excitement Tim for you have given everybody a reason to watch Denver.

Yes alot of red flags and fluky stuff...it won't be sustained against healthy complete teams...we saw what happened when he was thrown to the Lions

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:56 am

There is something to be said for prevent defenses. As a lifelong Browns fan, I've watched them get big leads in some big games, only to go into a 30-yard prevent and lose (how ironic that two of the biggest were vs. Denver? ).

Another Browns story that reminds me of this is the failed Derek Anderson. I'm not at all comparing him to Tebow, so bear with me. Anderson, I believe, came off the Ravens practice squad, but "led" the Browns to a near-playoff berth (losing a tie breaker when I think TEN laid down for an opponent?). But the Browns had one of the easiest schedules ever the second half of the season and he took advantage of it. Then they "paid the man", something like $25 million. Well, the following year, he turned back into a pumpkin without the soft schedule.

Similar to why we laid off Bucs and Chiefs this year. Strength of opponents DOES matter.

[ December 12, 2011, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

TR · Post by TR » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:10 am

There is something to be said for prevent defenses. As a lifelong Browns fan, I've watched them get big leads in some big games, only to go into a 30-yard prevent and lose (how ironic that two of the biggest were vs. Denver? [Smile] ).

Another Browns story that reminds me of this is the failed Derek Anderson. I'm not at all comparing him to Tebow, so bear with me. Anderson, I believe, came off the Ravens practice squad, but "led" the Browns to a near-playoff berth (losing a tie breaker when I think TEN laid down for an opponent?). But the Browns had one of the easiest schedules ever the second half of the season and he took advantage of it. Then they "paid the man", something like $25 million. Well, the following year, he turned back into a pumpkin without the soft schedule.

Similar to why we laid off Bucs and Chiefs this year. Strength of opponents DOES matter.

Another good point and I totally agree...

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:48 pm

Originally posted by Sandman62:

Regarding the Lions being the last team to defend him well,... that was also the last time he faced a team that didn't have either a completely inept offense or defense. You keep trying to minimize what Tebow has done, Mike. Tebow will just keep winning. He's doing everything you insisted he needed to do when this debate first began. He's doing it consistently over time and he's beating good defenses. Next up is a great offense so we'll see how he fares. Based on his history to date, it would be foolish to bet against him.

CoMoHusker · Post by **CoMoHusker** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:50 pm

Sandman, you and I continue to be aligned in our thoughts on Tebow. Most probably think I'm a hater but that's not the case. I'm in a weekly pick em pool and have picked the Broncos to win every game since the Jets game. However, my reasons for those picks aren't just Tim Tebow. He's an ingredient in what is a very unique and motivated team.

I mean, how many teams can have their QB go 3/15 for 45 yards thru three quarters and still be in the game for there even to be a last minute comeback? Answer...only the 2011 Broncos.

There is something unexplainable happening and the stars continue to align for that team each week. Just think about the last two weeks. They play a horrible Viking team who is starting a rookie QB and without their best player. Squeak the win out by a FG. This week they play the Bears who are without Cutler and Forte. It takes a bone head play from Marion Barber (which Tebow had nothing to do with) to eventually get them that win after 59 and 51 yard bombs by their kicker.

Now for a bigger decision, do I continue to pick the Broncos in my pool or will Brady make sure that the win streak comes to an end? Even though Brady's career record against Denver is horrible, it will be extremely difficult to go against him.

alanr824 · Post by **alanr824** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:54 pm

Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
Sandman, you and I continue to be aligned in our thoughts on Tebow. Most probably think I'm a hater but that's not the case. I'm in a weekly pick em pool and have picked the Broncos to win every game since the Jets game. However, my reasons for those picks aren't just Tim Tebow. He's an ingredient in what is a very unique and motivated team.

I mean, how many teams can have their QB go 3/15 for 45 yards thru three quarters and still be in the game for there even to be a last minute comeback? Answer...only the 2011 Broncos.

There is something unexplainable happening and the stars continue to align for that team each week. Just think about the last two weeks. They play a horrible Viking team who is starting a rookie QB and without their best player. Squeak the win out by a FG. This week they play the Bears who are without Cutler and Forte. It takes a bone head play from Marion Barber (which Tebow had nothing to do with) to eventually get them that win after 59 and 51 yard bombs by their kicker.

Now for a bigger decision, do I continue to pick the Broncos in my pool or will Brady make sure that the win streak comes to an end? Even though Brady's career record against Denver is horrible, it will be extremely difficult to go against him. I am not a betting man, but 6+ point home underdogs in a hostile stadium in Denver with Tebow means only one thing. A Patriots blow out.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:59 pm

Originally posted by CoMoHusker:

There is something unexplainable happening and the stars continue to align for that team each week. Precisely. What I can't understand is why people would be reluctant to give Tebow credit for playing a key role in what's happening. As I posted earlier, the exact same players were on the team earlier in the season when the Broncos were 1-4. Can it simply be a coincidence that every aspect of the team has improved once Tebow became the starting QB? I don't believe it is.

Is Tebow the sole reason for the turnaround? Of course not. Aaron Rodgers isn't solely responsible for the Packers' unbeaten season either. But like the Packers with Rodgers, the Broncos are feeding off what Tebow is doing. That's what great players do. They make everyone around them better. Tebow has absolutely done that without question.

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:33 pm

tebows birthplace.

and you wonder why ?

CoMoHusker · Post by **CoMoHusker** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:59 pm

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
[qb]
There is something unexplainable happening and the stars continue to align for that team each week. Precisely. What I can't understand is why people would be reluctant to give Tebow credit for playing a key role in what's happening. As I posted earlier, the exact same players were on the team earlier in the season when the Broncos were 1-4. Can it simply be a coincidence that every aspect of the team has improved once Tebow became the starting QB? I don't believe it is.

I am giving credit to Tebow for playing a key role in Denver's success. I am on record in this thread praising his leadership, motivation, and ability to get his team to rally around him.

What I am doing is not continuing to give him all that credit each week like so many others are. Some of the good fortunes haven't been controlled by Tebow or the Broncos. The schedule has been very much favorable to this point and they've dodged having to face some of the top players in those match ups.

I very much enjoy watching these games unfold each and every week. It's been a great story and great for this football season. Unless the Broncos experience a meltdown for the ages, they will find themselves in the play offs. Based on how the year began, that's impressive regardless how the team continues to get it done.

[ December 12, 2011, 08:01 PM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:11 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:

Regarding the Lions being the last team to defend him well,... that was also the last time he faced a team that didn't have either a completely inept offense or defense. You keep trying to minimize what Tebow has done, Mike. Tebow will just keep winning. He's doing everything you insisted he needed to do when this debate first began. He's doing it consistently over time and he's beating good defenses. Next up is a great offense so we'll see how he fares. Based on his history to date, it would be foolish to bet against him. [/QUOTE]Tom, you keep saying he's done everything I've insisted he do. Well, not really, if we're being honest, has he? I wanted to see him succeed vs. "good" teams - and by good, I don't mean, a good defense and a bottom-feeding offense or vice-versa, which is exactly what he's had the luxury of facing every game except the Lions. I'm not even saying he has to face TOP defenses or offenses, but at least above average would be a bigger test, IMO.

I also wanted to see him score better for fantasy purposes. Yes, he has a high floor (so far), in that he seems to pull out 18 points or more each week. But really, I just can't imagine him playing a whole season getting half his fantasy points in the last 5 minutes of every game.

I'm sorry, he may float your boat as a low-end NFFC starter, but for me, I want more upside in a fantasy QB than the 20 PPG or so he's averaged the last six games. And until I see him either start putting up the occasional 35-40 point fantasy game and against at least average to above average TEAMS (not just a good offense OR defense), I will remain skeptical on him as an NFFC QB.