Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30059
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
James, I realize the Broncos are making a lot of this up on the fly. I think everyone is aware of that. What I'm saying is I don't believe they need to revise their personnel approach to suit him.
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30059
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins.
I don't deny they have. All I'm saying is that perhaps the good fortune stems directly to Tebow's ability to lead his team - especially in crunch time. I think the idea that he's merely lucky and simply feasting on bad defenses or bad offenses (which every QB in the league gets to do) minimizes what his impact has been. The fact of the matter is there aren't many QBs in the league who have been better in the fourth quarter this season than Tebow. When the game is on the line he tends to deliver. Why should that simply be considered luck as opposed to possibly being an indication the guy has talent and has the ability to rise up when his team needs him the most?
Again, these are the exact same players who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time earlier in the season. Is it merely a coincidence that the Broncos happen to get "lucky" when Tebow became the starter? Or is it possible there's more going on than mere good fortune?
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins.
I don't deny they have. All I'm saying is that perhaps the good fortune stems directly to Tebow's ability to lead his team - especially in crunch time. I think the idea that he's merely lucky and simply feasting on bad defenses or bad offenses (which every QB in the league gets to do) minimizes what his impact has been. The fact of the matter is there aren't many QBs in the league who have been better in the fourth quarter this season than Tebow. When the game is on the line he tends to deliver. Why should that simply be considered luck as opposed to possibly being an indication the guy has talent and has the ability to rise up when his team needs him the most?
Again, these are the exact same players who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time earlier in the season. Is it merely a coincidence that the Broncos happen to get "lucky" when Tebow became the starter? Or is it possible there's more going on than mere good fortune?
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely.
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely.
You'll be fine long as your pretty face holds out, then it's gonna get pretty cold out...
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CoMoHusker
- Posts: 491
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by 4D:
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely. [/QUOTE]Yes, you're right that Dalton has started more games. How can you hold that against him? Can you say with great certainty that Tebow's success would continue over five games given how they have had to win? With the way in which they've won games, there is an extremely small margin for error and they could have just as easlily lost all those games.
The point that I'm making is that Tebow is being celebrated because his winning albeit by putting up extremely medicore numbers until the fourth quarter. Dalton is winning too, and has looked very impressive for a rookie in doing so. I will say that he has put up Tebow type passing efforts against the the three elite defenses that he's played in SF, Pitt, and Ravens. Based on the eight game sample for Tebow against relatively weak defenses, I'm sure his numbers wouldn't be much better in those same games.
Again, I watch Tebow play each week and what he and his TEAM are doing is amazing. It's entertaining and has been great for the league. However, I watch these games objectively and IMO, it is obvious that things aren't as great as all the Tebow lovers think they are.
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely. [/QUOTE]Yes, you're right that Dalton has started more games. How can you hold that against him? Can you say with great certainty that Tebow's success would continue over five games given how they have had to win? With the way in which they've won games, there is an extremely small margin for error and they could have just as easlily lost all those games.
The point that I'm making is that Tebow is being celebrated because his winning albeit by putting up extremely medicore numbers until the fourth quarter. Dalton is winning too, and has looked very impressive for a rookie in doing so. I will say that he has put up Tebow type passing efforts against the the three elite defenses that he's played in SF, Pitt, and Ravens. Based on the eight game sample for Tebow against relatively weak defenses, I'm sure his numbers wouldn't be much better in those same games.
Again, I watch Tebow play each week and what he and his TEAM are doing is amazing. It's entertaining and has been great for the league. However, I watch these games objectively and IMO, it is obvious that things aren't as great as all the Tebow lovers think they are.
Go Big Red!
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by 4D:
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely. [/QUOTE]The Broncos are winning more because of Von Miller than Tim Tebow...Von Miller is a rookie playing at defensive player of year level...tebow not even close to offensive MVP.
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
Tom,
I made a post to you earlier on this page about how Tebow's personal stats/productivity is currently held back by his playing circumstance. I see people debating you trying to compare Tebow to other current QB's and those other QB's have completely different circumstances to play under.
Thoughts? My thoughts are Tebow has some disadvantages compared to other QBs and some advantages. He has a great running game and a stout defense. On the negative side, he's lacking in great talent in the passing game to work with. What baffles me is the obsession on his SOS when it's rarely brought up with other QBs - especially when Tebow is doing things nearly every other QB in the league will not be asked to do this season (i.e. face a team with a Top 15 offense and defense).
Here's the thing I don't get - if Cam Newton or Andy Dalton do well, nobody is calling them "lucky." They're simply being praised for being productive. But Tebow isn't given the same type of praise by some. Instead, he's simply being lucky and some people refuse to acknowledge the possibility that he may be good too simply because he's not doing it in "prototypical" QB fashion. That baffles me, especially as it pertains to fantasy. Again, there isn't a single fantasy owner who should care how his player produces as long as he produces.
And from an NFL perspective, we've reached the point where it's time to stop asking Tebow to win conventionally. As long as he's simply winning, that should be enough. Especially for a team like the Broncos that hasn't been in the playoffs for the past six years. [/QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. [/QUOTE]The same number of victories while starting 5 more games. Dalton was the starter from the beginning of the season. He has A J Green, a far better receiver than anything the Broncos have.
The Broncos are winning because of Tim Tebow. Even their defensive players will tell you that. The entire team has stepped it's game up since Tebow took over. You can deny it all you want but as Tom said this started after he was named the starter. Coincidence? Not likely. [/QUOTE]The Broncos are winning more because of Von Miller than Tim Tebow...Von Miller is a rookie playing at defensive player of year level...tebow not even close to offensive MVP.
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thegambler
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
[QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. dalton should be getting the same pub that cam is getting. cam might have better stats but dalton's team is winning.
dalton is 7-6 with a shot at the playoffs. cam is 4-9 no shot at the playoffs.
cam plays tb, atlanta and no 6 times. these teams are #22, 27 and 30th ranked in pass def
dalton plays pitt balt and clev 6 times. they are #1, 2 and 5 ranked in pass def.
dalton should be getting some love for rookie of the year and some pub on espn but it all goes to cam and tebow.
[QUOTE]There is no justification to call Cam or Dalton "lucky" in terms of their success. They do not continue to have multiple quarter stretches of completley ineffective football, play five minutes of quality football and have their team still have a chance to win. They have both been much more consistent playing the position.
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins. In most instances, when you punt an average of 8 times per game, do nothing offensively for three quarters, your team is going to be blown out each and every week. But, the Broncos TEAM finds a way to win.
Getting back to Dalton. How come this guy isn't getting all the praise that Tebow has? He's a true rookie who had next to no training camp, and was thrown into the starting mix. Up until recently, he had his team in the running for the division title. His team didn't have high expectations this year either. Sure, he has made some rookie mistakes but has looked extremely capable of playing the position and doesn't go through the horrific stretches of football that Tebow does. Dalton torched Baltimore for over 300 yards without his top WR option.
Just seems like Dalton should be getting a bit more props based on the criteria that most of the Tebow lovers set. Afterall, each has led their team to the same number of victories. dalton should be getting the same pub that cam is getting. cam might have better stats but dalton's team is winning.
dalton is 7-6 with a shot at the playoffs. cam is 4-9 no shot at the playoffs.
cam plays tb, atlanta and no 6 times. these teams are #22, 27 and 30th ranked in pass def
dalton plays pitt balt and clev 6 times. they are #1, 2 and 5 ranked in pass def.
dalton should be getting some love for rookie of the year and some pub on espn but it all goes to cam and tebow.
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Great question
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30059
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by TR:
The Broncos are winning more because of Von Miller than Tim Tebow...Von Miller is a rookie playing at defensive player of year level...tebow not even close to offensive MVP. Miller's been terrific without a doubt. Quick question - how was Denver's defense with Miller doing when Orton was the starting quarterback?
The Broncos are winning more because of Von Miller than Tim Tebow...Von Miller is a rookie playing at defensive player of year level...tebow not even close to offensive MVP. Miller's been terrific without a doubt. Quick question - how was Denver's defense with Miller doing when Orton was the starting quarterback?
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
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CoMoHusker
- Posts: 491
- Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins.
I don't deny they have. All I'm saying is that perhaps the good fortune stems directly to Tebow's ability to lead his team - especially in crunch time. I think the idea that he's merely lucky and simply feasting on bad defenses or bad offenses (which every QB in the league gets to do) minimizes what his impact has been. The fact of the matter is there aren't many QBs in the league who have been better in the fourth quarter this season than Tebow. When the game is on the line he tends to deliver. Why should that simply be considered luck as opposed to possibly being an indication the guy has talent and has the ability to rise up when his team needs him the most?
Again, these are the exact same players who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time earlier in the season. Is it merely a coincidence that the Broncos happen to get "lucky" when Tebow became the starter? Or is it possible there's more going on than mere good fortune? [/QUOTE]Tom, how can you say that all their good fortune stems directly to Tebow? What did he or his ability to lead have to do with Marion Barber running out of bounds? The Broncos lose that game if he stays in the field of play. What did Tebow's ability to lead have to do with them getting to play a Bears team minus Cutler and Forte. All I am saying is that they have caught a lot of breaks that have nothing to do with Tim Tebow. I have said many times on this thread that I am impressed with his leadership, motivation, and the way in which he has gotten his team to rally around him. I just think that he's awarded credit for more than he controls.
The four games in which Orton started and played the entire game, the Broncos went 1-3. All but one of those games were close and McGahee ran for over 100 yards in half of them. So he was running well then too, just as he is now. People talk like without Tebow, the Broncos were never in these ball games and got blown out each week. Well, that's simply not true.
L Oak 23-20
W Cin 24-22
L @ Ten 17-14
L @ GB 49-23
A nice win against Cincy and a close loss at Ten. Didn't the Sainst just about lose at Ten last week? Throw out the Green Bay game because they have blown out a lot of teams this year. They had to make a move to Tebow to satisfy the fans and he sparked his team and they have improved over the course of the year, like many teams have. It's been great to watch and I think great for the league. I just still continue to think that Tebow is getting more credit for the team's success than is warranted.
And if the guy has talent and steps up when the team needs him most wouldn't this be better served if it was for the majority of the game? Seems like that would take a lot off pressure of the defense and maybe expand the margin of error a bit more.
I may very well be completely wrong but only time will tell.
[ December 15, 2011, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]
quote:Originally posted by CoMoHusker:
I continue to be amazed how anyone could watch this stretch of Broncos games and say that they haven't had a enormous amount of good fortune involved in these wins.
I don't deny they have. All I'm saying is that perhaps the good fortune stems directly to Tebow's ability to lead his team - especially in crunch time. I think the idea that he's merely lucky and simply feasting on bad defenses or bad offenses (which every QB in the league gets to do) minimizes what his impact has been. The fact of the matter is there aren't many QBs in the league who have been better in the fourth quarter this season than Tebow. When the game is on the line he tends to deliver. Why should that simply be considered luck as opposed to possibly being an indication the guy has talent and has the ability to rise up when his team needs him the most?
Again, these are the exact same players who couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time earlier in the season. Is it merely a coincidence that the Broncos happen to get "lucky" when Tebow became the starter? Or is it possible there's more going on than mere good fortune? [/QUOTE]Tom, how can you say that all their good fortune stems directly to Tebow? What did he or his ability to lead have to do with Marion Barber running out of bounds? The Broncos lose that game if he stays in the field of play. What did Tebow's ability to lead have to do with them getting to play a Bears team minus Cutler and Forte. All I am saying is that they have caught a lot of breaks that have nothing to do with Tim Tebow. I have said many times on this thread that I am impressed with his leadership, motivation, and the way in which he has gotten his team to rally around him. I just think that he's awarded credit for more than he controls.
The four games in which Orton started and played the entire game, the Broncos went 1-3. All but one of those games were close and McGahee ran for over 100 yards in half of them. So he was running well then too, just as he is now. People talk like without Tebow, the Broncos were never in these ball games and got blown out each week. Well, that's simply not true.
L Oak 23-20
W Cin 24-22
L @ Ten 17-14
L @ GB 49-23
A nice win against Cincy and a close loss at Ten. Didn't the Sainst just about lose at Ten last week? Throw out the Green Bay game because they have blown out a lot of teams this year. They had to make a move to Tebow to satisfy the fans and he sparked his team and they have improved over the course of the year, like many teams have. It's been great to watch and I think great for the league. I just still continue to think that Tebow is getting more credit for the team's success than is warranted.
And if the guy has talent and steps up when the team needs him most wouldn't this be better served if it was for the majority of the game? Seems like that would take a lot off pressure of the defense and maybe expand the margin of error a bit more.
I may very well be completely wrong but only time will tell.
[ December 15, 2011, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]
Go Big Red!
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
James, I realize the Broncos are making a lot of this up on the fly. I think everyone is aware of that. What I'm saying is I don't believe they need to revise their personnel approach to suit him. Tom,
If everyone understood that no one would be judging his stats or performance to the level they are nor would they be comparing him to other QB's in the league who are in totally different situations.
I don't think their personnel "approach" needs to be changed much but they do need better personnel around him. They need upgrades at WR, TE and RB. More importantly they need an offensive system that is specifically designed for Tebow's style of play. Then they need time to get those players acclimated to that system to the point everyone is on the same page and they can really open up the playbook.
That has not come close to happening for Tebow and until it does (and I am not sure it ever will) we cannot fairly judge or compare Tebow to other QB's in this league in my opinion.
If people think you could take Tom Brady and just throw him into the Tampa Bay offense in week 5 and expect good production they are nuts.
James, I realize the Broncos are making a lot of this up on the fly. I think everyone is aware of that. What I'm saying is I don't believe they need to revise their personnel approach to suit him. Tom,
If everyone understood that no one would be judging his stats or performance to the level they are nor would they be comparing him to other QB's in the league who are in totally different situations.
I don't think their personnel "approach" needs to be changed much but they do need better personnel around him. They need upgrades at WR, TE and RB. More importantly they need an offensive system that is specifically designed for Tebow's style of play. Then they need time to get those players acclimated to that system to the point everyone is on the same page and they can really open up the playbook.
That has not come close to happening for Tebow and until it does (and I am not sure it ever will) we cannot fairly judge or compare Tebow to other QB's in this league in my opinion.
If people think you could take Tom Brady and just throw him into the Tampa Bay offense in week 5 and expect good production they are nuts.