[QUOTE] Originally posted by CoMoHusker: The only media attention or attention in general that I take offense to is the kind that is awarding Tebow with being the reason for all of the team's recent success. There are too many instances, stats, and more easily the eye test that can easily refute that for me. I don't think it would be fair to say that I or other skeptics on these boards resent Tebow in anyway.
Here is another example of "media attention" fueling the scrutinity, resentment or minimally being offended.
This is my exact point.
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
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CoMoHusker
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by renman:
[QUOTE] Originally posted by CoMoHusker: The only media attention or attention in general that I take offense to is the kind that is awarding Tebow with being the reason for all of the team's recent success. There are too many instances, stats, and more easily the eye test that can easily refute that for me. I don't think it would be fair to say that I or other skeptics on these boards resent Tebow in anyway.
Here is another example of "media attention" fueling the scrutinity, resentment or minimally being offended.
This is my exact point. So, what is the exact issue with me watching these games each and every week, seeing the glaring struggles for a majority of the game, and forming an opinion of how I don't feel Tebow can be a sustaiable commodity in this league? If that is my opinion, wouldn't I also then disagree with the media's message and the messages on this thread that indicate otherwise? I still don't understand how that equates to any resentment towards Tebow.
Today's world is a media driven world. You never have an opinion on anything that is media driven? Seems impossible to me.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by CoMoHusker: The only media attention or attention in general that I take offense to is the kind that is awarding Tebow with being the reason for all of the team's recent success. There are too many instances, stats, and more easily the eye test that can easily refute that for me. I don't think it would be fair to say that I or other skeptics on these boards resent Tebow in anyway.
Here is another example of "media attention" fueling the scrutinity, resentment or minimally being offended.
This is my exact point. So, what is the exact issue with me watching these games each and every week, seeing the glaring struggles for a majority of the game, and forming an opinion of how I don't feel Tebow can be a sustaiable commodity in this league? If that is my opinion, wouldn't I also then disagree with the media's message and the messages on this thread that indicate otherwise? I still don't understand how that equates to any resentment towards Tebow.
Today's world is a media driven world. You never have an opinion on anything that is media driven? Seems impossible to me.
Go Big Red!
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Al, I understand that if Denver modifies things around him, you would draft him next year. But what if they don't? THAT's what I'm trying to get you to admit - that what he's doing now from a fantasy perspective probably can't last. You seem to [indirectly] agree or you wouldn't have placed additional conditions on my simple question. 
Renman, what exactly is the difference between "he deflects attention and "he isn't a self-promoter"?
You keep insisting that we forget that he doesn't self-promote. I'm telling you that I do not forget that, nor is it remotely relevant to my criticism of him. So if I REMEMBERED that each week when I read this thread, would/should I somehow then back off my opinion? It just seems irrelevant to me.
[ December 16, 2011, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
Renman, what exactly is the difference between "he deflects attention and "he isn't a self-promoter"?
You keep insisting that we forget that he doesn't self-promote. I'm telling you that I do not forget that, nor is it remotely relevant to my criticism of him. So if I REMEMBERED that each week when I read this thread, would/should I somehow then back off my opinion? It just seems irrelevant to me.[ December 16, 2011, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Husker,
Who said there is an issue?
What I said (which can be reviewed) is that the ridiculous attention shined on Tebow fuels much of the ridiculous scrutiny. For some people (not saying you), it fuels resentment which further fuels the scrutiny. It is why Tebow is held to standards other QB's are not.
I have tons of opinions on things media driven, including Tebow. You are missing my point because Sandman created confusion.
Tom had asked why Tebow is scrutinized the way he is... why he is held to different standards than other QB's. I believe it is because of the flood of media attention shined on him. Media attention HE IS NOT ASKING FOR via self promotion.
That is my point. I also explained that comparing Tebow now, who hasn't even played a 16 NFL games and has been thrown into a poorly conceived offense with limited weapons to other experienced top QB's in the NFL is ridiculous.
Who said there is an issue?
What I said (which can be reviewed) is that the ridiculous attention shined on Tebow fuels much of the ridiculous scrutiny. For some people (not saying you), it fuels resentment which further fuels the scrutiny. It is why Tebow is held to standards other QB's are not.
I have tons of opinions on things media driven, including Tebow. You are missing my point because Sandman created confusion.
Tom had asked why Tebow is scrutinized the way he is... why he is held to different standards than other QB's. I believe it is because of the flood of media attention shined on him. Media attention HE IS NOT ASKING FOR via self promotion.
That is my point. I also explained that comparing Tebow now, who hasn't even played a 16 NFL games and has been thrown into a poorly conceived offense with limited weapons to other experienced top QB's in the NFL is ridiculous.
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Sandman62:
Al, I understand that if Denver modifies things around him, you would draft him next year. But what if they don't? THAT's what I'm trying to get you to admit - that what he's doing now from a fantasy perspective probably can't last. You seem to [indirectly] agree or you wouldn't have placed additional conditions on my simple question.
Renman, what exactly is the difference between "he deflects attention and "he isn't a self-promoter"? You keep insisting that we forget that he doesn't self-promote. I'm telling you that I do not forget that, nor is it remotely relevant to my criticism of him. So if I REMEMBERED that each week when I read this thread, would/should I somehow then back off my opinion? It just seems irrelevant to me. Sandman,
The difference is spelling and you attributing something in quotes to me that I didn't say. The fact YOU PERSONALLY have not forgotten that this massive amount of attention shined on Tebow (that you admit fuels some of your scrutiny of him) is not something he is asking for is nice to read.
The fact remains for many others, it is forgotten, which was my point. My accurate point had nothing to do with YOU personally even though you tried to make it about you personally.
FACT- Tebow gets a ton of attention (way too much)
FACT- Tebow isn't a self promoter asking for it.
FACT- The massive attention fuels much of the scrutiny, some of which is unreasonable.
Whether any of these above facts apply to you personally has never been stated.
Al, I understand that if Denver modifies things around him, you would draft him next year. But what if they don't? THAT's what I'm trying to get you to admit - that what he's doing now from a fantasy perspective probably can't last. You seem to [indirectly] agree or you wouldn't have placed additional conditions on my simple question.
Renman, what exactly is the difference between "he deflects attention and "he isn't a self-promoter"?
You keep insisting that we forget that he doesn't self-promote. I'm telling you that I do not forget that, nor is it remotely relevant to my criticism of him. So if I REMEMBERED that each week when I read this thread, would/should I somehow then back off my opinion? It just seems irrelevant to me. Sandman,The difference is spelling and you attributing something in quotes to me that I didn't say. The fact YOU PERSONALLY have not forgotten that this massive amount of attention shined on Tebow (that you admit fuels some of your scrutiny of him) is not something he is asking for is nice to read.
The fact remains for many others, it is forgotten, which was my point. My accurate point had nothing to do with YOU personally even though you tried to make it about you personally.
FACT- Tebow gets a ton of attention (way too much)
FACT- Tebow isn't a self promoter asking for it.
FACT- The massive attention fuels much of the scrutiny, some of which is unreasonable.
Whether any of these above facts apply to you personally has never been stated.
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CoMoHusker
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by renman:
Husker,
Who said there is an issue?
What I said (which can be reviewed) is that the ridiculous attention shined on Tebow fuels much of the ridiculous scrutiny. For some people (not saying you), it fuels resentment which further fuels the scrutiny. It is why Tebow is held to standards other QB's are not.
I have tons of opinions on things media driven, including Tebow. You are missing my point because Sandman created confusion.
Tom had asked why Tebow is scrutinized the way he is... why he is held to different standards than other QB's. I believe it is because of the flood of media attention shined on him. Media attention HE IS NOT ASKING FOR via self promotion.
That is my point. I also explained that comparing Tebow now, who hasn't even played a 16 NFL games and has been thrown into a poorly conceived offense with limited weapons to other experienced top QB's in the NFL is ridiculous. Maybe I misunderstood? I took your previous post as I was letting the media scrutiny fuel my opinion. That is not true. I simply watch the games and form an opinion of what I see.
Who is holding Tebow to a higher standard than other QB's? Like I stated before, the only standard that I hold Tebow to is that of an NFL QB. If I see any QB in the league continue to struggle to the tune of 3/15 passing for an entire half, that would raise concern for me. The FACT is that other than mabye Blaine Gabbert, I just don't see that on a regular basis each Sunday other than from Tebow.
Yes, he and his team are winning. I don't argue and never have that it's not impressive or entertaining. My biggest issue has always been that I feel Tebow is getting more credit for the team's success than is warranted. As influencial as he as been on that team, they are catching breaks that not even he can control.
From a fantasy perspective, I would just not be comfortable relying on my QB to squeak out a solid point total in the last five minutes of games each week. I question that can continue and believe that there would be much safer options available. Anyone that disagrees, should feel free to draft him wherever they feel that should be.
[ December 16, 2011, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]
Husker,
Who said there is an issue?
What I said (which can be reviewed) is that the ridiculous attention shined on Tebow fuels much of the ridiculous scrutiny. For some people (not saying you), it fuels resentment which further fuels the scrutiny. It is why Tebow is held to standards other QB's are not.
I have tons of opinions on things media driven, including Tebow. You are missing my point because Sandman created confusion.
Tom had asked why Tebow is scrutinized the way he is... why he is held to different standards than other QB's. I believe it is because of the flood of media attention shined on him. Media attention HE IS NOT ASKING FOR via self promotion.
That is my point. I also explained that comparing Tebow now, who hasn't even played a 16 NFL games and has been thrown into a poorly conceived offense with limited weapons to other experienced top QB's in the NFL is ridiculous. Maybe I misunderstood? I took your previous post as I was letting the media scrutiny fuel my opinion. That is not true. I simply watch the games and form an opinion of what I see.
Who is holding Tebow to a higher standard than other QB's? Like I stated before, the only standard that I hold Tebow to is that of an NFL QB. If I see any QB in the league continue to struggle to the tune of 3/15 passing for an entire half, that would raise concern for me. The FACT is that other than mabye Blaine Gabbert, I just don't see that on a regular basis each Sunday other than from Tebow.
Yes, he and his team are winning. I don't argue and never have that it's not impressive or entertaining. My biggest issue has always been that I feel Tebow is getting more credit for the team's success than is warranted. As influencial as he as been on that team, they are catching breaks that not even he can control.
From a fantasy perspective, I would just not be comfortable relying on my QB to squeak out a solid point total in the last five minutes of games each week. I question that can continue and believe that there would be much safer options available. Anyone that disagrees, should feel free to draft him wherever they feel that should be.
[ December 16, 2011, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: CoMoHusker ]
Go Big Red!
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Husker,
No problem. It is very easy to misread points and tone here...lol especially when more than one personal is having a conversation.
I was saying that the massive amount of media attention Tebow gets fuels some (much) of the anti Tebow onslaught. I am not saying YOU or Sandman are Tebow bashing. I have not read your every post on the topic but I think you guys are likely just giving fair assessments of Tebow's abilities, performance and fantasy value while debating the topic with some pro-Tebow posters.
I think many people have tried to compare Tebow and his production to other top QB's in the NFL today. My point is that Tebow has less than 16 NFL games under his belt and has been thrown into a vanilla offense, with limited weapons, in mid season without any chance to properly be integrated into an offense designed FOR his style.
I simply made the point that this should be taken into consideration when evaluating Tebow's ability as an NFL QB and/or future fantasy value.
I would tend to agree with you that Tebow is getting too much credit for the teams winning (I bet he would agree). I tend to agree with those who feel some of this winning has been helped by some great fortune (Barber fumble, made 57 yard field goals, etc). I tend to agree that Tebow has clear flaws and limitations as a passer and we have seen almost ZERO QB's in the last 20 years succeed in the NFL without being able to throw the rock with precision.
Believe it or not, we likely agree on the Tebow topic more than you think.
No problem. It is very easy to misread points and tone here...lol especially when more than one personal is having a conversation.
I was saying that the massive amount of media attention Tebow gets fuels some (much) of the anti Tebow onslaught. I am not saying YOU or Sandman are Tebow bashing. I have not read your every post on the topic but I think you guys are likely just giving fair assessments of Tebow's abilities, performance and fantasy value while debating the topic with some pro-Tebow posters.
I think many people have tried to compare Tebow and his production to other top QB's in the NFL today. My point is that Tebow has less than 16 NFL games under his belt and has been thrown into a vanilla offense, with limited weapons, in mid season without any chance to properly be integrated into an offense designed FOR his style.
I simply made the point that this should be taken into consideration when evaluating Tebow's ability as an NFL QB and/or future fantasy value.
I would tend to agree with you that Tebow is getting too much credit for the teams winning (I bet he would agree). I tend to agree with those who feel some of this winning has been helped by some great fortune (Barber fumble, made 57 yard field goals, etc). I tend to agree that Tebow has clear flaws and limitations as a passer and we have seen almost ZERO QB's in the last 20 years succeed in the NFL without being able to throw the rock with precision.
Believe it or not, we likely agree on the Tebow topic more than you think.
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CoMoHusker
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Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Renman, those are fair points. I enjoy a good debate back in forth so please don't ever take any replies as being hateful in nature.
I agree that the media attention is ridiculous and over the top. I had to stop watching Sportcenter there for a while because it was so bad. I would bet that Tebow would say that it is over the top as well.
I don't wish ill will on anyone so I hope the kid succeeds but IMO, I think it will be very difficult.
I agree that the media attention is ridiculous and over the top. I had to stop watching Sportcenter there for a while because it was so bad. I would bet that Tebow would say that it is over the top as well.
I don't wish ill will on anyone so I hope the kid succeeds but IMO, I think it will be very difficult.
Go Big Red!
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Husker,
I never did take any of them that way. Though I do believe some people "attack" Tebow and "resent" him because of the attention he gets. Not saying you (or anyone else on this forum) are doing that, but I do think it is going on in the world.
I actually feel bad for Tebow in some ways. He (in my opinion) is limited as a talent throwing the ball. He has now had a heap of astronomical expectations thrown on him. The only way I can ever see him productive in this league if (as I have said before) an organization aggressively committed to him and hist style of play and in this "win or your fired" league, I am not sure if anyone will do that, including the Broncos.
His style of play will result in a physical beating. I am not sure the Tebow story will be so rose colored in 2014.
I am certainly rooting for him because with all the thugs, criminals, punks, animals, self promoters, etc in the NFL and sport in general these days.... He is a breath of fresh air.
I never did take any of them that way. Though I do believe some people "attack" Tebow and "resent" him because of the attention he gets. Not saying you (or anyone else on this forum) are doing that, but I do think it is going on in the world.
I actually feel bad for Tebow in some ways. He (in my opinion) is limited as a talent throwing the ball. He has now had a heap of astronomical expectations thrown on him. The only way I can ever see him productive in this league if (as I have said before) an organization aggressively committed to him and hist style of play and in this "win or your fired" league, I am not sure if anyone will do that, including the Broncos.
His style of play will result in a physical beating. I am not sure the Tebow story will be so rose colored in 2014.
I am certainly rooting for him because with all the thugs, criminals, punks, animals, self promoters, etc in the NFL and sport in general these days.... He is a breath of fresh air.
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boutrous11
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