Originally posted by TR:
quote:Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Al R G:
quote:Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by TR:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
quote:Originally posted by Sandman62:
I mean really, if your beloved Packers make it to the Super Bowl again but Rodgers gets the flu and doesn't play, can we all say "and they beat the defending champs"??? :rolleyes: Of course. The Packers are the defending champs until someone beats them. If Rodgers gets hurt on the first play of next week's game and the Giants go on to win they will have beaten the defending champs. I see no reason to minimize their accomplishment.
Tebow can't control who is on the field for the opposition. The fact of the matter is the Steelers won 12 games, had the league's best defense, the most experienced team of anyone in the playoffs, were favored by nearly everyone and lost. A big reason why they lost is Tim Tebow. It strikes me as nothing short of bizarre why people continue to go to such great lengths to avoid giving Tebow any credit or praise when he does something good.
And make no mistake, what he did yesterday was definitely something good. If Andy Dalton had done the same thing, people would be bending over backwards to praise his work against the defending conference champs. But when it's Tim Tebow it suddenly becomes less about what he does and more about what the opposition has or doesn't have or what they did or didn't do.
Tebow played a very good game yesterday and it came in a big-time situation against one of the top teams in the league. [/QUOTE]I disagree....Tebow has got far more praise for his work than Andy Dalton, even tho Dalton has been better. [/QUOTE]Same goes for Cam Newton. Tebow got much more hype, although Newton was superior and a much better foundation QB.
The difference is that Tebow won games and got his team in the playoffs. You do have to give the man credit for doing that. But I'd much rather have Dalton or Newton as a franchise QB. [/QUOTE]I will give you Newton as most likely a better franchise QB, though who knows if he will ever bring his team to the promised land. Dalton was good this year, but the jury is still out on him after a horrible playoff game. Tebow brought a team on the brink of collapse, into the playoffs, then they beat the defending AFC champions. There is no way to tell if any of these guys will be great, but going into the divisional playoff round, only one of them remains..... TEBOW!!!!! [/QUOTE]It's true that he's still standing while Dalton, Newton, and Matt Ryan have cleaned out their lockers.
Seeing Ryan collapse with a whimper and then watching Tebow lead such a dramatic win has softened me a bit on him. The name of the game in the NFL is to win, and Tebow did that yesterday.
The thing for me with Tebow now is that he's too unpredictable. I'm done betting against him, but I would never bet on him, either. [/QUOTE]Tebow seems to suck when he is expected to win...when there is no pressure and nobody expects much from him is when plays his best....alot easier to succeed under those type circumstances..similar to bad teams who pull off upsets near end of season when the pressure is off...still very inconsistent and I wouldnt trust him as a qb 1 [/QUOTE]You aren't serious with this statement... If you are, then you haven't watched him play. He plays at his best when the pressure is on. Considering he is the most hyped player in the NFL and everyone doubting he can succeed, every game, every snap, there is pressure on him just to keep his job (as far as what people are saying)... and YESTERDAY. In the playoffs, in overtime, against the Steelers. One play (with help from DT)... with the whole world watching
(considering the ratings)... Isn't that what its all about. Coming through, when everyone counts you out? I just don't get it. So, now he doesn't win the easy games.... lol.... before, it was that he hadn't beat a good defense. Well, which one is it, TR?
[ January 09, 2012, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Al R G ]
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30137
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Paul, I STRONGLY disagree with the belief that Tebow has gotten more hype than Newton. Cam has been a media darling since Week 1 and justifiably so. He's going to be the runaway winner for Rookie of the Year. I don't think anyone is saying they'd rather have Tebow over Newton. In that case, can you point me to the 50 page Newton thread so that I can post there? [/QUOTE]Someone could have started one in Week 1. You don't need me to start every thread, do you?
I think the big difference here is Newton was the No. 1 overall pick. While his play this season was a surprise, he was expected to make a huge impact. There's a big difference with that and a late first-round pick with obviously massive quarterback issues to overcome takes over for his team and helps transform an awful team into a playoff team.
I'll say this, though, if Newton had led the Panthers to the playoffs and posted a first-round playoff upset there'd be plenty of people going ga ga over him too. No doubt about that in my mind.
[ January 09, 2012, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Paul, I STRONGLY disagree with the belief that Tebow has gotten more hype than Newton. Cam has been a media darling since Week 1 and justifiably so. He's going to be the runaway winner for Rookie of the Year. I don't think anyone is saying they'd rather have Tebow over Newton. In that case, can you point me to the 50 page Newton thread so that I can post there? [/QUOTE]Someone could have started one in Week 1. You don't need me to start every thread, do you?
I think the big difference here is Newton was the No. 1 overall pick. While his play this season was a surprise, he was expected to make a huge impact. There's a big difference with that and a late first-round pick with obviously massive quarterback issues to overcome takes over for his team and helps transform an awful team into a playoff team.
I'll say this, though, if Newton had led the Panthers to the playoffs and posted a first-round playoff upset there'd be plenty of people going ga ga over him too. No doubt about that in my mind.
[ January 09, 2012, 03:38 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Sandman62:
Agreed that most teams are banged-up by now. But if we're being honest, the Steelers were much more injured than Denver.
Why not just revel in the victory for what it was instead of trying to hype it into more via labels that may no longer be relevant?
Its the ultimate David vs Goliath story. The big bad Steelers, against the Tebow led Broncos. Its what football is all about. Its what sports is all about. People like cheering for the underdog and when they come through in dramatic fashion like that, there is going to be a lot made of it, especially since Tebow was considered dead, losing his job, and everyone had figured him out... not so fast.
Agreed that most teams are banged-up by now. But if we're being honest, the Steelers were much more injured than Denver.
Why not just revel in the victory for what it was instead of trying to hype it into more via labels that may no longer be relevant?
Its the ultimate David vs Goliath story. The big bad Steelers, against the Tebow led Broncos. Its what football is all about. Its what sports is all about. People like cheering for the underdog and when they come through in dramatic fashion like that, there is going to be a lot made of it, especially since Tebow was considered dead, losing his job, and everyone had figured him out... not so fast.Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by TR:
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Well I don't think the Steelers' losses yesterday equates to the Packers losing Rodgers. And it's not like the Broncos were completely healthy either. Losing Decker was pretty big. No Brian Dawkins was a gigantic absence.
That's the deal at this time of the season. Hard to find a team that still has everyone completely healthy. I think losing Decker actually helped tebow...they were never on the same page all season. I doubt Decker makes that 1st corner end zone catch...let's not forget Eddie Royal had over 1000 yards his rookie season..then for some reason denver let him rot the next few years. I think the Steelers losses were worse than losing Aaron Rodgers as we saw what Matt Flynn can do in that system...never lose sight that majority of big games are won in the trenches. With that said, tebow and denver took advantage of the injuries and poor coaching. [/QUOTE]How exactly was that "poor coaching"??? Mike Tomlin and Dick Lebeau played Tebow exactly like Buffalo and KC did. The difference? Tebow and Denver figured it out and threw it down field. This game was NOTHING about poor coaching... excuse after excuse... TEBOW was the main reason Denver won this game with perfect down field throws against a top rated defense.
quote:Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Well I don't think the Steelers' losses yesterday equates to the Packers losing Rodgers. And it's not like the Broncos were completely healthy either. Losing Decker was pretty big. No Brian Dawkins was a gigantic absence.
That's the deal at this time of the season. Hard to find a team that still has everyone completely healthy. I think losing Decker actually helped tebow...they were never on the same page all season. I doubt Decker makes that 1st corner end zone catch...let's not forget Eddie Royal had over 1000 yards his rookie season..then for some reason denver let him rot the next few years. I think the Steelers losses were worse than losing Aaron Rodgers as we saw what Matt Flynn can do in that system...never lose sight that majority of big games are won in the trenches. With that said, tebow and denver took advantage of the injuries and poor coaching. [/QUOTE]How exactly was that "poor coaching"??? Mike Tomlin and Dick Lebeau played Tebow exactly like Buffalo and KC did. The difference? Tebow and Denver figured it out and threw it down field. This game was NOTHING about poor coaching... excuse after excuse... TEBOW was the main reason Denver won this game with perfect down field throws against a top rated defense.
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30137
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Yeah, after the Buffalo Debacle it made perfect sense for the Steelers to dare Tebow to beat them with his arm. Combine that approach with their top-ranked defense and they had every reason to think they could stop the Broncos' passing attack. But Tebow beat the approach and the Broncos finally passed on first down to win the game.
It took Denver more than four quarters to figure out that throwing on first down could result in something good. But they did figure it out. Now my question is whether they realize how effective it could be against the Patriots too or do they crawl back into their shell?
It took Denver more than four quarters to figure out that throwing on first down could result in something good. But they did figure it out. Now my question is whether they realize how effective it could be against the Patriots too or do they crawl back into their shell?
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
Yeah, after the Buffalo Debacle it made perfect sense for the Steelers to dare Tebow to beat them with his arm. Combine that approach with their top-ranked defense and they had every reason to think they could stop the Broncos' passing attack. But Tebow beat the approach and the Broncos finally passed on first down to win the game.
It took Denver more than four quarters to figure out that throwing on first down could result in something good. But they did figure it out. Now my question is whether they realize how effective it could be against the Patriots too or do they crawl back into their shell? If Denver is smart... they will start the game with several throws deep downfield. If they complete them or not, doesn't matter... for the rest of the game... Let Tebow be Tebow. Spread the receivers out, option and throw, if he has a lane, take it.... Did you notice the running lanes for Tebow last night were a lot larger after he started throwing deep down field. He now has two aspects of his game they can go with... Problem this week is, I dont think they can outscore the Pats. The Jets beat them last year by shortening the game and keeping Brady off of the field. This is why you spread them out, then run the ball, shorten the game, and see what happens.
[ January 09, 2012, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Al R G ]
Yeah, after the Buffalo Debacle it made perfect sense for the Steelers to dare Tebow to beat them with his arm. Combine that approach with their top-ranked defense and they had every reason to think they could stop the Broncos' passing attack. But Tebow beat the approach and the Broncos finally passed on first down to win the game.
It took Denver more than four quarters to figure out that throwing on first down could result in something good. But they did figure it out. Now my question is whether they realize how effective it could be against the Patriots too or do they crawl back into their shell? If Denver is smart... they will start the game with several throws deep downfield. If they complete them or not, doesn't matter... for the rest of the game... Let Tebow be Tebow. Spread the receivers out, option and throw, if he has a lane, take it.... Did you notice the running lanes for Tebow last night were a lot larger after he started throwing deep down field. He now has two aspects of his game they can go with... Problem this week is, I dont think they can outscore the Pats. The Jets beat them last year by shortening the game and keeping Brady off of the field. This is why you spread them out, then run the ball, shorten the game, and see what happens.
[ January 09, 2012, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Al R G ]
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Al R G:
Its so funny how these Tebow bashers never give him credit. First, it was that he hadn't beat a great defense. Then, he beats a great defense, but they didn't have all of their players...Hilarious... but whatever... Yes the Denver D should get some credit, but they gave up 23 points, and TEBOW scored 29 points on Polamalu and Harrison, both were in the game, last time I checked. The NFL had finally caught up with Tebow and figured him out, but maybe Tebow and Denver figured out what everyone was doing and had an answer! Bottom line is, every one of you Tebow haters (except Shrink, who at least was man enough to admit it) will never give him credit, because for some reason, you figure out a way to diminish his accomplishments. He passed for 316 yards and 2 TDs (also ran for 1) against the best rated passing defense in the NFL. Denver was without one of Tebow's favorite targets and Pittsburgh was without a few players, but had its best players in the game and Tebow was nearly perfect on every one of his long pass plays, even in very tight coverage.. Oh and 38 fantasy points... not bad Go back a few pages and weeks and reread YOUR excuse-laden post! You remember? The one where you blamed the Denver DEFENSE for not giving him better field position, despite them holding KC to just 7 points and Tebow not breaking 80 yards passing.
Then look how silent this thread got during his 3-week meltdown. And I consciously was very silent, not feeling the need to pile on by stating the obvious Yet you're calling US out for not bowing down now? Geez.
Hey, he played great yesterday. But obviously not vs the same players who earned PIT the #1 defense rank or their AFC championship last year. Still no cakewalk. But he also still missed on more than half his passes. Oh wait! THOSE are all passes he intentionally threw away. Uh huh. Right!
I'll start believing more when his completion percent goes up a lot. Until then, I'll remain skeptical that he isn't another Desean Jackson type - players who rely too much on their big plays; but once those vanish, so do they.
Of course, I already admitted long ago that he apparently is a low-end starting NFFC QB. And that I like him as a person and a leader. WTF else are you expecting? Oh, that's right "no excuses" (just homage). Two-way street bud! :rolleyes:
Its so funny how these Tebow bashers never give him credit. First, it was that he hadn't beat a great defense. Then, he beats a great defense, but they didn't have all of their players...Hilarious... but whatever... Yes the Denver D should get some credit, but they gave up 23 points, and TEBOW scored 29 points on Polamalu and Harrison, both were in the game, last time I checked. The NFL had finally caught up with Tebow and figured him out, but maybe Tebow and Denver figured out what everyone was doing and had an answer! Bottom line is, every one of you Tebow haters (except Shrink, who at least was man enough to admit it) will never give him credit, because for some reason, you figure out a way to diminish his accomplishments. He passed for 316 yards and 2 TDs (also ran for 1) against the best rated passing defense in the NFL. Denver was without one of Tebow's favorite targets and Pittsburgh was without a few players, but had its best players in the game and Tebow was nearly perfect on every one of his long pass plays, even in very tight coverage.. Oh and 38 fantasy points... not bad Go back a few pages and weeks and reread YOUR excuse-laden post! You remember? The one where you blamed the Denver DEFENSE for not giving him better field position, despite them holding KC to just 7 points and Tebow not breaking 80 yards passing.
Then look how silent this thread got during his 3-week meltdown. And I consciously was very silent, not feeling the need to pile on by stating the obvious Yet you're calling US out for not bowing down now? Geez.
Hey, he played great yesterday. But obviously not vs the same players who earned PIT the #1 defense rank or their AFC championship last year. Still no cakewalk. But he also still missed on more than half his passes. Oh wait! THOSE are all passes he intentionally threw away. Uh huh. Right!
I'll start believing more when his completion percent goes up a lot. Until then, I'll remain skeptical that he isn't another Desean Jackson type - players who rely too much on their big plays; but once those vanish, so do they.
Of course, I already admitted long ago that he apparently is a low-end starting NFFC QB. And that I like him as a person and a leader. WTF else are you expecting? Oh, that's right "no excuses" (just homage). Two-way street bud! :rolleyes:
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Tom Kessenich
- Posts: 30137
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 6:00 pm
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
I wouldn't classify the first Patriots game as a meltdown. Tebow didn't play poorly in that game. The Bills and Chiefs games definitely were melt downs.
As far as fantasy goes, what Tebow showed yesterday was more in line with what he showed last season when he was QB1 as a starter late in the year. That's what makes him such an intriguing prospect. He was a consistent QB1 this year without doing much in the passing game. If he makes any improvements there at all, his value will rise even more.
That's what it's always boiled down to with Tebow - how much better can he be throwing the ball?
As far as fantasy goes, what Tebow showed yesterday was more in line with what he showed last season when he was QB1 as a starter late in the year. That's what makes him such an intriguing prospect. He was a consistent QB1 this year without doing much in the passing game. If he makes any improvements there at all, his value will rise even more.
That's what it's always boiled down to with Tebow - how much better can he be throwing the ball?
Tom Kessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Manager of High Stakes Fantasy Games, SportsHub Technologies
Twitter - @TomKessenich
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by Al R G:
Its so funny how these Tebow bashers never give him credit. First, it was that he hadn't beat a great defense. Then, he beats a great defense, but they didn't have all of their players...Hilarious... but whatever... Yes the Denver D should get some credit, but they gave up 23 points, and TEBOW scored 29 points on Polamalu and Harrison, both were in the game, last time I checked. The NFL had finally caught up with Tebow and figured him out, but maybe Tebow and Denver figured out what everyone was doing and had an answer! Bottom line is, every one of you Tebow haters (except Shrink, who at least was man enough to admit it) will never give him credit, because for some reason, you figure out a way to diminish his accomplishments. He passed for 316 yards and 2 TDs (also ran for 1) against the best rated passing defense in the NFL. Denver was without one of Tebow's favorite targets and Pittsburgh was without a few players, but had its best players in the game and Tebow was nearly perfect on every one of his long pass plays, even in very tight coverage.. Oh and 38 fantasy points... not bad Go back a few pages and weeks and reread YOUR excuse-laden post! You remember? The one where you blamed the Denver DEFENSE for not giving him better field position, despite them holding KC to just 7 points and Tebow not breaking 80 yards passing.
Then look how silent this thread got during his 3-week meltdown. And I consciously was very silent, not feeling the need to pile on by stating the obvious Yet you're calling US out for not bowing down now? Geez.
Hey, he played great yesterday. But obviously not vs the same players who earned PIT the #1 defense rank or their AFC championship last year. Still no cakewalk. But he also still missed on more than half his passes. Oh wait! THOSE are all passes he intentionally threw away. Uh huh. Right!
I'll start believing more when his completion percent goes up a lot. Until then, I'll remain skeptical that he isn't another Desean Jackson type - players who rely too much on their big plays; but once those vanish, so do they.
Of course, I already admitted long ago that he apparently is a low-end starting NFFC QB. And that I like him as a person and a leader. WTF else are you expecting? Oh, that's right "no excuses" (just homage). Two-way street bud! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]I am the only one to come out and predict a Bronco win yesterday and a Tebow resurrection... so you are talking to the wrong guy, bud.... as far as the Denver defense, they were not that good yesterday. They had a few sacks, but they were playing a hurt Big Ben without their running back. Tebow and the offense won the game yesterday.... :rolleyes:
[ January 09, 2012, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Al R G ]
quote:Originally posted by Al R G:
Its so funny how these Tebow bashers never give him credit. First, it was that he hadn't beat a great defense. Then, he beats a great defense, but they didn't have all of their players...Hilarious... but whatever... Yes the Denver D should get some credit, but they gave up 23 points, and TEBOW scored 29 points on Polamalu and Harrison, both were in the game, last time I checked. The NFL had finally caught up with Tebow and figured him out, but maybe Tebow and Denver figured out what everyone was doing and had an answer! Bottom line is, every one of you Tebow haters (except Shrink, who at least was man enough to admit it) will never give him credit, because for some reason, you figure out a way to diminish his accomplishments. He passed for 316 yards and 2 TDs (also ran for 1) against the best rated passing defense in the NFL. Denver was without one of Tebow's favorite targets and Pittsburgh was without a few players, but had its best players in the game and Tebow was nearly perfect on every one of his long pass plays, even in very tight coverage.. Oh and 38 fantasy points... not bad Go back a few pages and weeks and reread YOUR excuse-laden post! You remember? The one where you blamed the Denver DEFENSE for not giving him better field position, despite them holding KC to just 7 points and Tebow not breaking 80 yards passing.
Then look how silent this thread got during his 3-week meltdown. And I consciously was very silent, not feeling the need to pile on by stating the obvious Yet you're calling US out for not bowing down now? Geez.
Hey, he played great yesterday. But obviously not vs the same players who earned PIT the #1 defense rank or their AFC championship last year. Still no cakewalk. But he also still missed on more than half his passes. Oh wait! THOSE are all passes he intentionally threw away. Uh huh. Right!
I'll start believing more when his completion percent goes up a lot. Until then, I'll remain skeptical that he isn't another Desean Jackson type - players who rely too much on their big plays; but once those vanish, so do they.
Of course, I already admitted long ago that he apparently is a low-end starting NFFC QB. And that I like him as a person and a leader. WTF else are you expecting? Oh, that's right "no excuses" (just homage). Two-way street bud! :rolleyes: [/QUOTE]I am the only one to come out and predict a Bronco win yesterday and a Tebow resurrection... so you are talking to the wrong guy, bud.... as far as the Denver defense, they were not that good yesterday. They had a few sacks, but they were playing a hurt Big Ben without their running back. Tebow and the offense won the game yesterday.... :rolleyes:
[ January 09, 2012, 04:26 PM: Message edited by: Al R G ]
Tim Tebow - Let's Talk
The NFL is about adjusting to the other team and their scheme to stop you, on both sides of the ball. The great teams and coaches, for example, The Patriots, overcome by doing the unexpected, like the Broncos did yesterday. What Tebow and the Broncos proved yesterday is, no one has figured out Tebow yet. They have an idea of what Tebow and the Broncos want to do, but yesterday proved that Tebow's game is not one dimensional. Will it mean the Broncos beat the Pats... I am not ready to make that prediction. But it does prove that you cannot bury this kid, even though a lot of you are hoping to, because for whatever reason, you cannot handle the hype, you don't like his arrogant, cocky attitude... just can't figure it out.. but he won that game for them yesterday and, like it or not, he lives on another week.