Week 6 Drops

Gordon Gekko
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Gordon Gekko » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:52 pm

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
I do not need to answer to Gekko - this is not an inquisition. I made a waiver pickup and spent the rest of my bidding dollars (save $5) to do so. I am now handicapped for the rest of the season Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
Eli is not LT nor Brady, nor is he even close. He is a below-average weekly starter. so you spent $350 out of your remaining $355 on a "below-average weekly starter"? something doesn't make sense. is it any wonder that you don't want to answer simple questions. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

at this point, i'm not trying to say what u did was wrong or right, i'm just trying to understand your reasoning by asking two simple questions.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?

ultimatefs
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Week 6 Drops

Post by ultimatefs » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:53 pm

Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
quote:Originally posted by JohnZ:
quote:Originally posted by sportsbettingman:
Isn't that a by-product of the 8 man bench?

Just my opinion.

If he dropped Anderson...(the 4th ranked QB in points per game)...I doubt you'd fuss so much.

~Lance As usual, you are wrong and shortsighted.

It's not about the name of the player, it's about the value he has to the overall contest and Anderson has proved that he has that. I would have easily posted the same thing.

His arguments are just league based and that's not the issue here. The problem here is that Manning is better then Bulger this year and Bulger wasn't allowed back.

The only reason players are ever pulled is because of their effect on the overall contest, so to argue about the 14 guys in your league is shortsighted.

The #1 team in my league has a huge need for a flex next few weeks, and at #25, Cotch could have a huge effect on the overall. 15 more points moves him from 25 to 18 in just one week (he has Keith at flex). Of course an Eli is more likely to have a greater effect because he averages 6 points more per game than Cotch, but Cotch would have an effect for sure.
[/QUOTE]As usual you are a buffoon.

You can do all the BS imaginary scenarios where this guy outbids that guy and flex's that other guy to come to a meaningless point.

If there is a logical reason for making a drop in this league with pathetic bench size...you can't remove everyone from the player pool. Removing Bulger was a mistake...it was due to his NAME only.

You can only start ONE QB/K/DEF...so these positions should receive LESS impact on the "Remove Player From Pool" list.

Period.

Carry on.

~Lance
[/QUOTE]Lance, you aren't even in the Main event, so how could you ever understand the effect this has on it? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

p.s. Ever since I called you a poker fish, you've stalked every post I've made. Please stop stalking me. TIA.

[ October 19, 2007, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: JohnZ ]
Jules is a Dirt bag and makes my luck.

sportsbettingman
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Week 6 Drops

Post by sportsbettingman » Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:59 pm

No problem, John.

Just make more sense.

Your posts are full of ****.

~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."

~Long John Silver

Leroy's Aces
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Leroy's Aces » Fri Oct 19, 2007 6:25 pm

Gekko - I know you think you own this board and because you post a lot, that you are a quasi-owner/moderator of NFFC. You do not and you are not. Your questions are not relevant to the topic. You are asking if I knew about the removal of a formerly elite QB from the player pool. Not relevant. You are asking what I would do as commish about two elite players, not a mid-level player like Eli. Not relevant. Not the same players and I am not a commish here. Do not think you can run one of your classic inquisition campaigns here and bully Greg into taking Eli Manning off my team when he was rightfully acquired by my team during the waiver process.

Also, even if you got Greg to try to agree to do something as crazy as reverse waivers less than 30 hours prior to kickoff, it is not so simple as to pull Eli and give me a substitute QB from my list. In the interest of true fairness, which is what Gekko is arguing, one would need to pull Eli from my team and allow me to rebid on other quarterbacks, as well as bid on players like Michael Bennett (I still need a better RB2), a better defense (high cost of Eli bid forced me to bid low and only got Detroit for 1 week), and bid on flyers like Ted Ginn and Priest Holmes, etc. All previously acquired players would all need to be removed from other teams in Chicago League 2 and Greg would need to contact all of those owners, and then run waivers again for my league.

I will post this again, as it makes a lot of sense as to the real value of the player in question:

This so-called issue is such BS anyway. David Garrard just got picked up in our league LAST WEEK for only $75. What if I had picked him up this week instead of Eli Manning after someone cut him? Should David Garrard have been removed from the player pool? WELL - he averages 20.3 points per game. Eli averages only 21, a difference of just .7 points. If Eli should get removed, then why was Garrard not removed from the pool last week? What if Griese had gotten picked up, started for 2 weeks and dropped? No biggie, right? Well, he averages 26.6. It is in the eye of the beholder. We have Vince Young. Can I cut him and will he get removed, or does he SUCK JUST ENOUGH to stay in the free agent pool? Even Cleo Lemon averages more than Eli at this point.

The real answer is that Bulger, in my opinion, should never have been removed from the free agent pool. And that is even if Bulger has proven time and again to be a top 5 QB, unlike Eli. That sets a precedent that people like Gekko can refer to as the "correct" baseline, when in fact, player values fluctuate, team needs fluctuate and there is no correct baseline. That is an issue with having a commissioner evaluate talent in the free agent pool - it is subjective and player performance is subject to change any time.

Dave
Leroy's Aces

[ October 20, 2007, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Leroy's Aces ]
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Shrink Attack
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Shrink Attack » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 am

1) Should Manning have been allowed on the Waiver Wire? NO

2) Was there adequate time for the Commissioner to remove Manning from the Waiver Wire? YES

3) Is it fair to the NFFC contest participants that Manning was allowed to be picked up? NO

4) Were the contest rules followed by the participants in that League who bid on Manning? YES

5) Would it be fair to the participants in that League who bid on Manning to change the Waiver History one day prior to the games? NO

6) Is this really REVERSIBLE in a way that makes sense? NO...if Manning weren't available during the waiver period, then the waiver bids and the money bids would've been completely different throughout the league.


For what it's worth (which isn't much), here's what I think: Manning should not have been allowed to be available, but removing him from Waiver consideration is a subjective decision on the Commissioner's part rather than an objective rule violation. Yes, maybe the Commissioner WOULD'VE removed Manning had he noticed him being available, but the bottom line is that he didn't. When Manning was not removed, the league in question bid on him legally and fairly. I see no EQUITABLE way to somehow reverse it or re-run it. There's no perfect solution to this, because letting the result stand isn't fair to the NFFC contestants and reversing it isn't fair to those particular league's participants who violated no rules. Yes, there are many more NFFC contestants than the 14 players in that league, but this was a mistake whose time has passed to correct.

It's analagous to a blown call in the NFL. The instant replay may show that the call is wrong, but then if another play is already run than the previous play cannot be challenged. Now that the Waivers have gone through, I don't think it's right to go back and challenge it.

Obviously, my bias would be for Dave NOT to get Manning because it would make it easier for him to catch me in the standings. But to be objectively fair, I think there's no better choice than to let him keep Manning.

Just my $0.02

[ October 20, 2007, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Shrink Attack ]
"Deserve" ain't got nothin' to do with it
---Clint Eastwood in The Unforgiven

Gordon Gekko
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Post by Gordon Gekko » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:06 am

Dave - you are putting a lot of time and effort (and faab) into defending your so-called "below average qb".

Greg has AND ALWAYS WILL make decisions with the overall INTEGRITY of the contest in mind, independent of what I say, you say, anyone says. That's what any of us expect a commish to do.

If u end up winning the 100K because of manning, it may not look so good to some people, from an integrity standpoint. If greg disagrees, that's fine.
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Greg Ambrosius
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:07 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I went through this list earlier in the week and can say I missed Manning. I don't know how, but I did. I went through it on Tuesday and I know Tom did too and I assume so did everyone else who gets the cuts. You are correct on his assessment being above Bulger's. I'm being as honest as I can be. i understand things happen sometimes. how's that for a new mellow GG

since this was caught quickly (and games don't take place for 2 more days) and i'm assuming you would have quickly pulled manning from the free agent pool if u saw him earlier this week, is it possible for you to see the bid list for the owner who picked up manning and give him his next choice that would have been evaluated. that way, the integrity of the league and overall contest isn't questioned?

another way of looking at this, if somehow you missed LT, would he be able to stay on the team that picked him up?
[/QUOTE]Forget that. Eli Manning is not even close to as good as Tomlinson. I am the one that now owns Manning and rightfully bid $350 to do so. The next highest bid was $312, and the 13 other owners in my league knew he was out there.

Also, considering the NFFC did not give my Packer defense the point that they rightfully earned due to the unbelievably early Wed noon eastern stat change deadline, I at least deserve the free agent that was rightfully there and that I earned by outbidding everyone else in my league that had a shot at him.

The team that dropped him, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly are the FIRST PLACE TEAM IN OUR LEAGUE. They had 3 QBs on their roster last week, Palmer, Eli and Derek Anderson, and needed a TE since theirs was on bye. They had to drop a QB. Also, the team I am playing against had plenty of money to have spent to get Manning if he wanted to block me. If the NFFC chooses to have 18 man rosters, occasionally good players need to get dropped by teams that are loaded. Who determines who is too good to pick up? I have seen Norwood dropped and picked up in various non-NFFC leagues this year - is he too good? I personally do not see why a player like Bulger should have been removed from the pool anyway, unless it looks like collusion. Since the 1st place team dropped him and he has one super-stud QB in Palmer and shootout boy Derek Anderson, I can easily see them dropping Manning. Many people do not value QBs (even in this format) as highly as others and consider them droppable.

Besides, waivers have already been run, just like the Wednesday stat change deadline was past when the stats got changed. Just like in this instance, it was 2 full days before the games that weekend, so the Packer defense could easily have been credited with the 1 point that they earned. Instead, the rule of the Wednesday 12 noon deadline was enforced.

Dave
Leroy's Aces
[/QUOTE]Well, the first thing I wanted to do this morning was go into the office and check over the entire transaction. Dave pretty much summed it up here. It's obviously a very interesting situaton with the first place team cutting Eli because he had three solid QBs and the rest of the league having the chance to pick up a starting QB via free agency. Dave obviously did nothing wrong by picking up this available free agent, so let's direct the questions going foward to me, not Dave. I'm the one who should answer all questions here.

I would have pulled Eli from this league as evidenced by my Bulger removal last week. I missed it and the move has been made. Feel free to direct all questions to me as I'm the one who needs to answer them, not anyone else.

It's my job to go through the cuts each week and to make the subjective decisions on the cuts to keep all leagues level. Tom and I must double-check each cut going forward better.
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Greg Ambrosius
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Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:12 am

Originally posted by Shrink Attack:
1) Should Manning have been allowed on the Waiver Wire? NO

2) Was there adequate time for the Commissioner to remove Manning from the Waiver Wire? YES

3) Is it fair to the NFFC contest participants that Manning was allowed to be picked up? NO

4) Were the contest rules followed by the participants in that League who bid on Manning? YES

5) Would it be fair to the participants in that League who bid on Manning to change the Waiver History one day prior to the games? NO

6) Is this really REVERSIBLE in a way that makes sense? NO...if Manning weren't available during the waiver period, then the waiver bids and the money bids would've been completely different throughout the league.


For what it's worth (which isn't much), here's what I think: Manning should not have been allowed to be available, but removing him from Waiver consideration is a subjective decision on the Commissioner's part rather than an objective rule violation. Yes, maybe the Commissioner WOULD'VE removed Manning had he noticed him being available, but the bottom line is that he didn't. When Manning was not removed, the league in question bid on him legally and fairly. I see no EQUITABLE way to somehow reverse it or re-run it. There's no perfect solution to this, because letting the result stand isn't fair to the NFFC contestants and reversing it isn't fair to those particular league's participants who violated no rules. Yes, there are many more NFFC contestants than the 14 players in that league, but this was a mistake whose time has passed to correct.

It's analgous to a blown call in the NFL. The instant replay may show that the call is wrong, but then if another play is already run than the previous play cannot be challenged. Now that the Waivers have gone through, I don't think it's right to go back and challenge it.

Obviously, my bias would be for Dave NOT to get Manning because it would make it easier for him to catch me in the standings. But to be objectively fair, I think there's no better choice than to let him keep Manning.

Just my $0.02 That's a good two cents Paul. I agree and do admit our oversight.
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Gordon Gekko
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Gordon Gekko » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:41 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I would have pulled Eli from this league as evidenced by my Bulger removal last week. I missed it and the move has been made. Feel free to direct all questions to me as I'm the one who needs to answer them, not anyone else.
Thanks for the quick reply Greg.

Per your request regarding questions...if let's say LT or Tom Brady or the other Manning was missed, and then picked up by a team during FAAB, would that owner be allowed to keep LT, Brady, or Peyton Manning? i know it "seems" far-fetched, but it could still happen. assuming collusion has been ruled out of course.
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Greg Ambrosius
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Week 6 Drops

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Sat Oct 20, 2007 1:51 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I would have pulled Eli from this league as evidenced by my Bulger removal last week. I missed it and the move has been made. Feel free to direct all questions to me as I'm the one who needs to answer them, not anyone else.
Thanks for the quick reply Greg.

Per your request regarding questions...if let's say LT or Tom Brady or the other Manning was missed, and then picked up by a team during FAAB, would that owner be allowed to keep LT, Brady, or Peyton Manning? i know it "seems" far-fetched, but it could still happen. assuming collusion has been ruled out of course.
[/QUOTE]It's a legitimate question. Collusion was my first question here and obviously that isn't the case with the first place team cutting Eli. His reason for cutting Eli makes sense too as Eli wasn't even a starter on his team. I haven't looked at Dave's team yet, but it's possible Eli isn't an every week starter for him too. I don't know that, though.

Here's my thought on this and again I'll admit my mistake before stating this: With a QB pickup, Dave is possibly gaining points with Eli while benching his other QB. He's not able to put Eli at Flex and gain an additional starter. He's replacing one. So comparing LT and Eli isn't comparable.

But again, it's my job to watch all the cuts and make the right decisions. I just somehow missed Eli on this one.
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