NEW DIE HARDS LEAGUE

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:00 pm

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
Their system is not a system yet, nor is it what the NFFC should do in my view. We will have to wait and see like you said. If that decision is already being made, then the customers had no say in it. Seems like a tough move to make right out of the gate when you could easily ask for input from potential customers.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:36 pm

I've known about this for a couple months now. It's the venture Ian and Emil moved onto after the WCOFF deal fell through. A couple other interesting individuals are involved.

I'll admit I'm a little surprised they're making such a big commitment while going after an already very crowded NFL opening weekend for live drafts.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:25 pm

I take the word "guaranteed" with a grain of salt, especially from a new contest offering such big prizes.

da bears · Post by **da bears** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:24 pm

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I've known about this for a couple months now. It's the venture Ian and Emil moved onto after the WCOFF deal fell through. A couple other interesting individuals are involved.

I'll admit I'm a little surprised they're making such a big commitment while going after an already very crowded NFL opening weekend for live drafts. Yeah going up against the NFFC and the FFPC on the NFL opening weekend doesn't seem like a bright move at all.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:33 pm

Originally posted by da bears:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I've known about this for a couple months now. It's the venture Ian and Emil moved onto after the WCOFF deal fell through. A couple other interesting individuals are involved.

I'll admit I'm a little surprised they're making such a big commitment while going after an already very crowded NFL opening weekend for live drafts. Yeah going up against the NFFC and the FFPC on the NFL opening weekend doesn't seem like a bright move at all. [/QUOTE]All I know is that we're going to be on BOTH weekends this year in multiple cities and in Las Vegas on Opening Weekend we'll have drafts scheduled all day Thursday, Friday and Saturday. We know that players will want to play multiple events, so we'll give them plenty of options to join NFFC events. The rest will somehow take care of itself.

TOMDOG · Post by **TOMDOG** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:51 pm

I, got the email today,and it caught me totally by surprise.
But there is a short list of people that I would now trust to give my money to in a startup contest,and Emil is on top of that list.He brings credibility.
He and Lenny are the true godfathers of this life we chose.
I am in.
Now I need to find money for 3 contests,and time to participate in them all in vegas in september.
Should be fun.

Glenneration X · Post by **Glenneration X** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 4:15 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by da bears:
quote:Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I've known about this for a couple months now. It's the venture Ian and Emil moved onto after the WCOFF deal fell through. A couple other interesting individuals are involved.

I'll admit I'm a little surprised they're making such a big commitment while going after an already very crowded NFL opening weekend for live drafts. Yeah going up against the NFFC and the FFPC on the NFL opening weekend doesn't seem like a bright move at all. [/QUOTE]All I know is that we're going to be on BOTH weekends this year in multiple cities and in Las Vegas on Opening Weekend we'll have drafts scheduled all day Thursday, Friday and Saturday. We know that players will want to play multiple events, so we'll give them plenty of options to join NFFC events. The rest will somehow take care of itself.

[/QUOTE]I did exchange a couple PM's and messages with Ian when I first found out about this event and had a long conversation recently with Emil. They seem very sincere and confident in their plans and as Chad noted they do have some interesting ideas.

However, I was very open with Emil with my thoughts. I gave the honest opinion that making the huge commitment of a $200K guarantee while planning their Grand Opening on the same crowded weekend as the NFFC and FFPC is an extremely risky plan. Throw in the fact that this risk is being taken in an enviroment where the fantasy customer has been beaten down and made suspicious due to recent defaults and the risk multiplies.

I do believe they'll get their share of customers who'll go after the big prize, or trust in Emil, or just like to play multiple events. I also believe that some of their partners will funnel customers to their event much like Footballguys did for the FFPC. Whether enough of these potential customers register in order to make the contest a success remains to be seen.

alanr824 · Post by **alanr824** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:33 pm

The WCOFF was started in an excellent economy and was an original idea that built up trust with thousands through the years. The NFFC comes along and does its thing and builds up a large core of loyal customers. The FFPC comes along and quickly builds up a very good event. BUT, things have changed. The market is not the same. There have been too many failures, too much deception, and too many people that just don't trust. And really, at this point, many of the WCOFF players are gone for good. They aren't coming back. The players remaining are happy where they are, in a trustworthy event. Starting over, with WCOFF 2, is a novel idea, but already they are starting with guaranteed prizes that may be unreachable and we all know what that means. I don't care who is starting it, and no disrespect, but things in this industry have changed. Starting smaller and building up a trustworthy event would be the way to go. But, obviously that is not what is happening. Another black cloud is not what HSFF needs right now. Sure, this is America and they have every right to do what they want to do, but in the end, if we all suffer because of a few guys trying to take advantage of vulnerable former WCOFF members and others, then this will really suck. As for me, I trust no one else. I have seen too many friends lose too much money. Its not just the HSFF industry, its everything in America that involves trust right now, from Wall Street, Banks, Mortgage Companies, or anywhere you might want to invest your money. Its a crap shoot and too much trust has been lost. Don't mean to be negative but, you heard it here first.. this idea will not survive more than a few years at the most.

Shrink Attack · Post by **Shrink Attack** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:25 pm

Originally posted by Al R G:
The WCOFF was started in an excellent economy and was an original idea that built up trust with thousands through the years. The NFFC comes along and does its thing and builds up a large core of loyal customers. The FFPC comes along and quickly builds up a very good event. BUT, things have changed. The market is not the same. There have been too many failures, too much deception, and too many people that just don't trust. And really, at this point, many of the WCOFF players are gone for good. They aren't coming back. The players remaining are happy where they are, in a trustworthy event. Starting over, with WCOFF 2, is a novel idea, but already they are starting with guaranteed prizes that may be unreachable and we all know what that means. I don't care who is starting it, and no disrespect, but things in this industry have changed. Starting smaller and building up a trustworthy event would be the way to go. But, obviously that is not what is happening. Another black cloud is not what HSFF needs right now. Sure, this is America and they have every right to do what they want to do, but in the end, if we all suffer because of a few guys trying to take advantage of vulnerable former WCOFF members and others, then this will really suck. As for me, I trust no one else. I have seen too many friends lose too much money. Its not just the HSFF industry, its everything in America that involves trust right now, from Wall Street, Banks, Mortgage Companies, or anywhere you might want to invest your money. Its a crap shoot and too much trust has been lost. Don't mean to be negative but, you heard it here first.. this idea will not survive more than a few years at the most. I agree with this.

This idea of starting a new event, with such high prize awards, going head to head against established competition, in such a poor economic environment makes zero business sense to me.

Maybe they are trustworthy people, but consider this: Trustworthy people can go bankrupt when their businesses fail and are then unable to pay their debts, no matter what their honorable intentions. I'm sure they also reserve the right to cancel the entire event and return the entry fees if they don't reach a critical number of participants, which would be a real possibility.

The only thing which which might ease those concerns would be if the ENTIRE guaranteed prize money were put IN ADVANCE in a true 3rd party escrow (not the fake ones out there where the game operators still have access to it) prior to the draft. Otherwise, no thanks.

da bears · Post by **da bears** » Tue Feb 14, 2012 11:54 pm

Originally posted by Al R G:
The WCOFF was started in an excellent economy and was an original idea that built up trust with thousands through the years. The NFFC comes along and does its thing and builds up a large core of loyal customers. The FFPC comes along and quickly builds up a very good event. BUT, things have changed. The market is not the same. There have been too many failures, too much deception, and too many people that just don't trust. And really, at this point, many of the WCOFF players are gone for good. They aren't coming back. The players remaining are happy where they are, in a trustworthy event. Starting over, with WCOFF 2, is a novel idea, but already they are starting with guaranteed prizes that may be unreachable and we all know what that means. I don't care who is starting it, and no disrespect, but things in this industry have changed. Starting smaller and building up a trustworthy event would be the way to go. But, obviously that is not what is happening. Another black cloud is not what HSFF needs right now. Sure, this is America and they have every right to do what they want to do, but in the end, if we all suffer because of a few guys trying to take advantage of vulnerable former WCOFF members and others, then this will really suck. As for me, I trust no one else. I have seen too many friends lose too much money. Its not just the HSFF industry, its everything in America that involves trust right now, from Wall Street, Banks, Mortgage Companies, or anywhere you might want to invest your money. Its a crap shoot and too much trust has been lost. Don't mean to be negative but, you heard it here first.. this idea will not survive more than a few years at the most. Excellent post as I feel this way also. Starting smaller and building up a trustworty event seems like a better way to go in this economy.