Auction rules gotta change

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 8:20 am

Originally posted by Follow Me:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
As for the auction rules. I am wondering what people think about the idea of a 3 week total point sprint (for the 6 playoff teams) as opposed to H2H single game eliminations. I think a healthy balance between H2H and total points should be used to determine the 6 playoff teams.

I know someone else mentioned the 3 week total point sprint (with weekly average) just like the NFFC main events. It makes it feel like less of a crap shoot and again gives a slight advantage to the better stronger teams.

Anyone else care to share opinions? renman,

I have been pimping this for the Ultimate League since Year 1. Greg has polled the participants and I am just about the only one that wants this.

This year Greg was nice enough to let me have a few minutes with some of the guys right after the Ultimate League's draft. There were 5 or 6 teams represented.

Noone else wanted this. They all wanted to keep H2H.

"That is how the NFL does it."

"Look what the Giants did last year."

"H2H is more exciting."

Were some of the comments.

I'd love to play Total Points for the Playoffs and get rid of the luck of the match-ups.

Unfortunately, us usual, my opinion is in the minority.

Mark
Follow Me [/QUOTE]Mark, I don't think everyone at that meeting was against your proposal. In fact, I think everyone enjoyed the discussion and wanted to incorporate some of your ideas into our current setup. I agree. There is a way to make the Ultimate League even more fair and your ideas sparked interest in improving that model for 2009.

As you know, the NFFC Super League is set up as you suggested. I'd love to fill that up next year and run that format.

I hope everyone knows that I've tried to make all of our contests as fair as possible and as you can see we have different playoff formats for every event, giving everyone a chance to compete in a model they think is fair. I guess we could do everything total points in the playoffs and be done with it, but there is some merit to the h2h matchups over the final three weeks of the season for the big payoff.

I'll listen to all suggestions to improve our formats and that's why I appreciate Jeff starting this thread. We'll tweak everything from the satellites to the Ultimate League if needed.

moyer1313 · Post by **moyer1313** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:21 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Follow Me:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
As for the auction rules. I am wondering what people think about the idea of a 3 week total point sprint (for the 6 playoff teams) as opposed to H2H single game eliminations. I think a healthy balance between H2H and total points should be used to determine the 6 playoff teams.

I know someone else mentioned the 3 week total point sprint (with weekly average) just like the NFFC main events. It makes it feel like less of a crap shoot and again gives a slight advantage to the better stronger teams.

Anyone else care to share opinions? renman,

I have been pimping this for the Ultimate League since Year 1. Greg has polled the participants and I am just about the only one that wants this.

This year Greg was nice enough to let me have a few minutes with some of the guys right after the Ultimate League's draft. There were 5 or 6 teams represented.

Noone else wanted this. They all wanted to keep H2H.

"That is how the NFL does it."

"Look what the Giants did last year."

"H2H is more exciting."

Were some of the comments.

I'd love to play Total Points for the Playoffs and get rid of the luck of the match-ups.

Unfortunately, us usual, my opinion is in the minority.

Mark
Follow Me [/QUOTE]Mark, I don't think everyone at that meeting was against your proposal. In fact, I think everyone enjoyed the discussion and wanted to incorporate some of your ideas into our current setup. I agree. There is a way to make the Ultimate League even more fair and your ideas sparked interest in improving that model for 2009.

As you know, the NFFC Super League is set up as you suggested. I'd love to fill that up next year and run that format.

I hope everyone knows that I've tried to make all of our contests as fair as possible and as you can see we have different playoff formats for every event, giving everyone a chance to compete in a model they think is fair. I guess we could do everything total points in the playoffs and be done with it, but there is some merit to the h2h matchups over the final three weeks of the season for the big payoff.

I'll listen to all suggestions to improve our formats and that's why I appreciate Jeff starting this thread. We'll tweak everything from the satellites to the Ultimate League if needed. [/QUOTE]Greg,

There was some very good discussion about possible ways to modify the payout structure to reduce the difference between 1st and 2nd Place ($27,500 and $12,500), because one H2H game isn't worth $15,000, and to spread that money out so that more teams won some money.

This would also help ensure that the teams that did well during the regular season didn't get skunked during the Playoffs just because they got unlucky in the match-ups.

There were several different possiblities suggested and most of the teams, if not all of the teams, were in favor of some sort of modification of the payout breakdown.

However, everyone else was opposed to eliminating H2H during the Playoffs. There were no other teams present that wanted to use Total Points during the Playoffs. I was alone in wanting to change to using Total Points.

One of the reasons I was looking forward to the Super League was because of the Playoff setup. I would have much rather played the Super League than the Ultimate League because of it.

The NFFC has been great at listening to us and tweaking things to make the NFFC a great place to play with many different formats.

This is at least the 3rd time that I have bugged you about a possible change to the Ultimate League's Playoff format and each time you have asked the other participants what they wanted. They have soundly stated that they want to keep the Playoff setup as H2H.

I appreciate you taking the time to indulge me, again.

Mark
Follow Me

moyer1313 · Post by **moyer1313** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:38 am

Originally posted by CC's Desperados:
quote:Originally posted by Follow Me:
quote:Originally posted by renman:
As for the auction rules. I am wondering what people think about the idea of a 3 week total point sprint (for the 6 playoff teams) as opposed to H2H single game eliminations. I think a healthy balance between H2H and total points should be used to determine the 6 playoff teams.

I know someone else mentioned the 3 week total point sprint (with weekly average) just like the NFFC main events. It makes it feel like less of a crap shoot and again gives a slight advantage to the better stronger teams.

Anyone else care to share opinions? renman,

I have been pimping this for the Ultimate League since Year 1. Greg has polled the participants and I am just about the only one that wants this.

This year Greg was nice enough to let me have a few minutes with some of the guys right after the Ultimate League's draft. There were 5 or 6 teams represented.

Noone else wanted this. They all wanted to keep H2H.

"That is how the NFL does it."

"Look what the Giants did last year."

"H2H is more exciting."

Were some of the comments.

I'd love to play Total Points for the Playoffs and get rid of the luck of the match-ups.

Unfortunately, us usual, my opinion is in the minority.

Mark
Follow Me [/QUOTE]Mark-

I was there at the ultimate when you were talking about it. I can see why you want to change it. If you change the rules to the way you prefer, I think you will have some different caliber of players that would be interested. The wise guys always want total points. So is it better for you to play against a tougher field? Or is it better to play against the current group of players? I think any team could cash a check in that event, but I could see a couple of teams being in the hunt consistantly from year to year. I think if you change the format you are actually going to make it tougher on yourself. [/QUOTE]Shawn,

You are dead on, as usual. I think there would be others, that do not currently play, that would be interested in joining.

I'm all for playing against the toughest competition, and in the Playoffs, I would much rather play against the Top 5 in a Total Points format than the Bottom 5 in a H2H format.

I may or may not do as well, but it would be more about me getting beat by a better team than getting beat by another team that got lucky one week or me winning because I got lucky, like I did last year.

Luck is bad.

Mark
Follow Me

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:52 am

Mark, sometimes luck is good.

NBC Mag. League

FOLLOW ME (5-1) 746.1 points
Diesel (2-4) 749.65

Diesel · Post by **Diesel** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:54 am

Greg, when it comes to auctions...If you build it, I will come...LOL

As long as I know the rules before the draft comes, I'm in for any type of Auction format.

moyer1313 · Post by **moyer1313** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:30 pm

Originally posted by Diesel:
Mark, sometimes luck is good.

NBC Mag. League

FOLLOW ME (5-1) 746.1 points
Diesel (2-4) 749.65 Marc,

I'll be back to the pack in a week or two. I'll wave to you as you pass me in the standings.

How about this one:

NBC Aug. 19th $150 League 2

Team Morgan 6 0 0 1.00 W 6 703.85 491.7
Follow Me......2 4 0 .333 W 1 733.75 768.05

These are just more examples of why H2H has too much luck involved.

I don't deserve to be 5-1 and will finish the season at 7-6 or maybe 8-5. Just have to hope I can score enough points to make the Playoffs with you.

Mark
Follow Me

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:48 pm

Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Just a thought:

If there is an advantage to being seeded 3rd as opposed to 5th, shouldn't that reward go to the team that did "better" in the regular season and scored the most points? I believe that's why the 3/4 are based on points and the 5/6 on H2H.

Also, IMO the Top 3 point scorers should be guaranteed playoff spots -- not the Top 4. The way things are set-up right now, the Top 3 point scorers and the Top 3 H2H teams make the playoffs. Do well in one or the other, and you're in the playoffs. Thanks for bringing something to the discussion. I knew I could count on you.

I think you have a valid point...one I'm going to give some thought to. I guess I still think if you're top 4 in points then you should never get shut out of a 6 team playoff.

It seems to me that if the majority would rather it stay the same then the talk of wanting to "beat the best" should cease.

Seriously..thanks for your input. I will always go with the majority once the democratic process has been given it's due. I may not like it...but i respect it.

[/QUOTE]Old way

1. H2H
2. Points
3. H2H
4. H2H
5. Points
6. Points

current

1. H2H
2. Points
3. Points
4. Points
5. H2H
6. H2H

Maybe you could do something like

1. H2H
2. Points
3. H2H
4. Points
5. Points
6. H2H

This would still allow #6 to get in by record and be more likely to include the #4 high points team.

Just a thought. [/QUOTE]I like this as a compromise to the current way.

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:00 pm

I just want to say I'm sorry I didn't give more thought to the title of this thread.

Auction rules don't "gotta" change as I wrote it. I was trying to attract attention to the thread and I guess I didn't think about the title that much.

I will play in the auction next year even if the format stays as is. I hope there can be a compromise of some kind but in the end I'll support the NFFC just like I always have because it's a great game with great people.

Sorry for my part in the way this got started.

Gekko....I never meant for this to get personal between us so I offer you my apology for being a little too edgy in my posts towards you.

I don't believe in hiding behind PM's with my apologies. That's one of the reasons I'm Diesels hero! :rolleyes:

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:17 pm

Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by Ugly Yellow Tomatoes:
quote:Originally posted by Route C:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
[/QUOTE]Maybe you could do something like

1. H2H
2. Points
3. H2H
4. Points
5. Points
6. H2H

This would still allow #6 to get in by record and be more likely to include the #4 high points team.

Just a thought. [/QUOTE]I like this as a compromise to the current way. [/QUOTE]Any thoughts on Mikes suggestion here?

BillyWaz · Post by **BillyWaz** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 2:25 pm

I personally think this is best....

1. H2H
2. Points
3. H2H
4. H2H
5. Points
6. Points

This would practically guarantee that a great points but lousy record team would get in.

I personally would like to see it with 6 teams and take their average into the playoffs for 3 weeks ala the Main... but if it has to be (3) H2H and (3) points in the playoffs, I like the above format.