FFOC Investigation

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:21 am

The biggest problem with leagues like the FFOC is that they take customers from legitimate events. A few days ago I saw a post from someone on FBG that was going to skip WCOFF this year and instead draft 32 teams in the FFOC. One shot at $300,000 versus 32 shots at $1,000,000 -- or something crazy like that.

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:26 am

'someone on FBG'

Why does this not surprise me? Most are worse or less knowledgeable than Yahoo players. :rolleyes: The site is good for some things but the message board is unreadable. Not worth the time.

John

King of Queens · Post by **King of Queens** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:41 am

Originally posted by Leroy's Aces:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Earlier tonight on another thread, I reported that FFOC currently has 87 leagues drafted. Some folks (myself included) believed that if they were in League 80, then they were the 80th league in the FFOC. From the research that I just did, this appears to be incorrect. If you type in the following URL:

www.ffoc.com/mytools/viewrosters.php?leag=

and after the equal sign put a number, you will see the complete league draft for the corresponding league number.

I did this from 1 up to 120, and only 67 leagues have been drafted to date. That is far less than the 1,000 entries that were reported earlier -- 804 to be exact. Granted, many of these 804 teams may have purchased a three- or ten-pack and have drafts coming up later this month or in early September. However, for a contest that needs 15,000 entries to break even, I have serious doubts about whether this event will actually happen.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from the folks here, particularly those who believe there's over a 90% chance that the FFOC goes forward. To me, the numbers simply don't add up. 1. Another thing to note is that a LOT of these leagues are going off with less than 10 drafters, which to me means that they never filled and they just had them go off anyway.

2. The "pace" they are on is not even close to have a chance to even hit 10,000 teams - which would still be a fiscal bloodbath for them. Maybe you should start an over/under thread. I would say only 4000 teams draft before they finally cancel it.

3. One of the primary people running the event, Stan Misthios, was most recently a junior hockey coach.

4. I have heard a few other things through the grapevine that would make me very leery of this.

5. Personally, the fantasy football lottery dose not appeal to me as a fantasy player, but that is just my opinion. Plus, they are 10 teams leagues with a QB flex, and no PPR at all - no thanks.

6. Has anyone read their forums? Half of the posts are players bitching about some screwup or another. The #2 pick is auto-pick, or some guy drafting the Eagles Defense in round 2, or they dropped the draft 2 times and never rescheduled, etc, etc, etc. [/QUOTE]Good info, Dave. Thanks for sharing.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:34 am

Originally posted by King of Queens:
Earlier tonight on another thread, I reported that FFOC currently has 87 leagues drafted. Some folks (myself included) believed that if they were in League 80, then they were the 80th league in the FFOC.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from the folks here, particularly those who believe there's over a 90% chance that the FFOC goes forward. To me, the numbers simply don't add up. KOQ, the leagues seem to be assigned numbers when filled, not in order of draft date. So with the number up to 100+ there probably are another 15+ that have been assigned but haven't yet drafted.

As for Leroy's Aces, isn't he involved in promoting one of those other contests (which could be losing potential customers to FFOC)? If so, I'd take what he says above with a huge grain of salt. His comments above smack of trying to discredit a competitor with his "secret" insider info which he doesn't disclose and other straw man arguments. When I see arguments like that I am leery of the one making the argument, not the one he is trying to discredit (like a short-seller spreading rumors designed to scare people out of their positions, I hear this kinda stuff everyday). If he's not involved with that other contest, my apologies.

Will it go off? I hope so, it's a great payout for players if it does. FWIW, I don't think losing a million or so in season 1 is an unreasonable burden for a mass market contest that could make it all up in season 2. If the financial backers are capitalized and committed as has been implied, it should go off.

[ August 06, 2008, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:57 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Earlier tonight on another thread, I reported that FFOC currently has 87 leagues drafted. Some folks (myself included) believed that if they were in League 80, then they were the 80th league in the FFOC.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from the folks here, particularly those who believe there's over a 90% chance that the FFOC goes forward. To me, the numbers simply don't add up. KOQ, the leagues seem to be assigned numbers when filled, not in order of draft date. So with the number up to 100+ there probably are another 15+ that have been assigned but haven't yet drafted.

As for Leroy's Aces, isn't he involved in promoting one of those other contests (which could be losing potential customers to FFOC)? If so, I'd take what he says above with a huge grain of salt. His comments above smack of trying to discredit a competitor with his "secret" insider info which he doesn't disclose and other straw man arguments. When I see arguments like that I am leery of the one making the argument, not the one he is trying to discredit (like a short-seller spreading rumors designed to scare people out of their positions, I hear this kinda stuff everyday). If he's not involved with that other contest, my apologies. [/QUOTE]I disagree Kevin. If there are 15+ more leagues in waiting, big deal. That still doesn't get to 1,000 leagues by Aug. 25th. But again, good luck on the plan as it may work for them in the long run.

As for Dave, he's been watching this event closely and speaks with good knowledge. All of his points are legit. He's not trying to discredit a competitor, just pointing out obvious points. I don't think he deserves to take any shot in this.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:08 am

KJ,

I believe that Dave is one of the owners and a darn good fantasy player.

Now that he is on the other side, I do wonder if he should be quoting the "grapevine" and questioning another owners ability to manage their own challenge based on how they earn their living? Ethical at this point in the season?

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:09 am

Originally posted by Ted's Cracked Head:
Dave,

Just out of curiosity, what diffference does it make that he "was most recently a junior hockey coach?" Does this really make you leery?

----------------------------------------

well they must have heard the complaints about the Commish being a Hockey Guy cause They just added Jerry Rice as another Commissioner. Is his former job ok?

These guys are trying...I know Jerry Rice probably doesn't have much experience being a commish. But the pointing out Stans former job as being relevant was questionable...so I thought it funny they just added the guy whos former job was being the Greatest Wide Receiver in NFL history.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by King of Queens:
Earlier tonight on another thread, I reported that FFOC currently has 87 leagues drafted. Some folks (myself included) believed that if they were in League 80, then they were the 80th league in the FFOC.

I'd love to hear some thoughts from the folks here, particularly those who believe there's over a 90% chance that the FFOC goes forward. To me, the numbers simply don't add up. KOQ, the leagues seem to be assigned numbers when filled, not in order of draft date. So with the number up to 100+ there probably are another 15+ that have been assigned but haven't yet drafted.

As for Leroy's Aces, isn't he involved in promoting one of those other contests (which could be losing potential customers to FFOC)? If so, I'd take what he says above with a huge grain of salt. His comments above smack of trying to discredit a competitor with his "secret" insider info which he doesn't disclose and other straw man arguments. When I see arguments like that I am leery of the one making the argument, not the one he is trying to discredit (like a short-seller spreading rumors designed to scare people out of their positions, I hear this kinda stuff everyday). If he's not involved with that other contest, my apologies. [/QUOTE]I disagree Kevin. If there are 15+ more leagues in waiting, big deal. That still doesn't get to 1,000 leagues by Aug. 25th. But again, good luck on the plan as it may work for them in the long run.

As for Dave, he's been watching this event closely and speaks with good knowledge. All of his points are legit. He's not trying to discredit a competitor, just pointing out obvious points. I don't think he deserves to take any shot in this. [/QUOTE]We disagree then Greg. (1) he implies the lges that draft aren't filled with legit customers, which I doubt is true - if it is I'd love to hear the story. (2) he implies the guy isn't legit because he coached hockey. (3) he talks down both the format and rules (maybe they should've checked with him for his personal preference). (4) he pulls out complaints from the msg board and makes them sound like no one is happy (I've drafted a number of teams without a hitch, the draft room is actually very good). (5) All of this in adition to his secret info. Hatchet job. Poor form IMO.

[ August 06, 2008, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

LFW · Post by **LFW** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:14 am

Originally posted by Ted's Cracked Head:
KJ,

I believe that Dave is one of the owners and a darn good fantasy player.

Now that he is on the other side, I do wonder if he should be quoting the "grapevine" and questioning another owners ability to manage their own challenge based on how they earn their living? Ethical at this point in the season? -----------------------------

Ted- I agree.
I don't think it would be fair if someone took a jab at Dave being a commish because of how he makes a living so I think it's inappropriate that Dave even brought up Stans former job.

Ted's Cracked Head · Post by **Ted's Cracked Head** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:15 am

As for Dave, he's been watching this event closely and speaks with good knowledge. All of his points are legit. He's not trying to discredit a competitor, just pointing out obvious points. I don't think he deserves to take any shot in this.
Listing the grapevine as a source?

Bashing another owners ability to manage based on what they do for a living?

So what if their signups have not met their goals? So what if they are lagging? As a player you hope it does not sell out and they continue on anyway. Better pot odds. If they cancel, I doubt very much this group runs away and hides. Why bring it up? Especially siince he is a competitor on another comnpetitors message board.

If he is leery, he should state facts not crap. Items #1 and #6 might be factual and item #5 is his opinion on the format.