League Prizes vs, Grand Prize

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:40 am

This is an easy one. 2-8 overall need a bump up. Prize structure...
Second Place $30,000 up from $15,000
Third Place $15,000 up from $7,500
Fourth Place $5,000 up from $2,500
Fifth Place $5,000 up from free entry in 2005 NFFC
Sixth Place $3,000 up from free entry in 2005 NFFC
Seventh Place $3,000 up from free entry in 2005 NFFC
Eighth Place $3,000 up from free entry in 2005 NFFC

how much is that silly crystal trophy. get rid of it and add the $ to the prize pool.

renman · Post by **renman** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:39 am

the point i was making is that some people thought lowering the overall prize fund somehow "taints" the who ever is the "overal" or "world champion"... and i see it differently.

"how much" you are paid for being the overall champ does not lessen the fact you were the overall champ. the top prize will still be and should still be huge. but though many people may play this with an eye on winning the "big prize", i think many more will play with the idea of "what do i have to do to get my money back and make a small profit" first.. with a hopeful eye on winning the big prize.

going forward i could visualize some seasons where one or two teams just have a magical combination of good drafting and great fortune and end up with a team that is super dominant and could build up a huge lead going into the playoffs and make the season look like a blowout from week 8 on...

if we make prizes strong within our own personal leagues where everyone is playing on an even playing field, and maybe add some weekly cash prizes to keep teams who get bad luck early in a season that might take them out of running for playoffs we can give more people a good taste and grow interest...

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:23 am

Thanks JP for the thread and thanks guys for the comments. I was actually thinking about this last week in Arizona when I was watching baseball games in 80-degree temperatures and drinking beer at 1 in the afternoon!

Trust me, it was hard work, but someone had to do it.

As you can imagine, this is a question I've asked myself many times as I plan for 2005. Hell, we had to submit budgets for approval here at KP two weeks ago and I have already submitted my realistic plans for the NFBC and NFFC for 2005. I am keeping the same entry fee level, same three cities, same 14-team structure and shooting for aggressive increases in the number of teams for both events. I have determined how much prize money I'll pay in each event, but I haven't figured out the distribution yet and really don't need to decide that until I announce the 2005 NFFC in January.

I have two dilemmas: 1) I want to grow this event in 2005 to atleast twice as many teams as 2004 and to do that you need a BIG grand prize. Is $100,000 enough to lure 448 teams or more when I know that other contests will be offering larger grand prizes? And 2) I'd love to give second and third place in each league more money, while still keeping the grand prize relevent.

There are a lot of different ways to do the math. Some contests have chosen to increase the entry fee to increase the league prizes. Others have chosen to lower the grand prize while also paying out less than our 75% model. Personally, I have no desire to increase the entry fee or lower the payout percentage, so I need to attract more teams and then make sure all of our participants are happy with the grand prize payout.

If I expanded to 448 teams next year with a model that paid out the same league prizes and a $150,000 grand prize, would that be ideal? Or would you rather see that additional $50,000 spread out over 32 leagues, thus allowing first place in each league to increase by $500, second place by $500 and third place by $500? Or would you rather see first place in each league increased by $1,000 to $6,000, with second and third place increased by $250 each?

Dyv is right, one day there will be a major sponsor who will help with the overall prizes and some of our prize payouts. He already knows I'm working hard on that and other things. But we're not there yet and the sponsorship money I do get now goes back into upgrading the event via speakers, drinks and food.

There are a number of ways to increase the league prizes and second through 10th overall prizes, but unfortunately they come back to the grand prize. That is until we can grow this to a point where all of the prizes just keep on growing.

Here's my question to you:
1) Would you play in the NFFC next year for a $100,000 grand prize if league prizes were increased by $1,000-$1,500? This is under the pretense that we'd shoot for 448 teams.

2) Or would you rather play for the same setup with the grand prize going up proportionately to the number of teams (224 teams = $100,000; 448 teams = $150,000; 602 teams = $200,000), and the same league prizes?

I'm interested in your views and would love to see as many people respond as possible. Trust me, the grand prize won't go below $100,000, but I want to continue to grow this event and make sure those players who helped me in Year One are happy with the setup going forward. Thanks.

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 6:07 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
I'm interested in your views and would love to see as many people respond as possible. will the teams that finish 2-8 overall get anything more than this year?

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:43 am

The entire prize pool is based on 75 percent of total entrys. If I were to make the payouts for second through eighth overall based on this year's 224 teams, that would be an additional $39,000 in cash. Sure, I would love to do that and reward those champions, but I think I would be smarter to add $39,000 in league prizes rather than add that to seven people who either won their $5,000 league prize or finished second and took home $1,750.

But to answer your question, yes the second through eighth overall will go up next year because I'm planning on having more teams. However, they will go up proportionately based on the number of teams I seek to fill the event. Maybe that will be 308, maybe it's 350 or maybe it's 448. I'm not sure yet.

But honestly, Gordon, while I want to reward those teams more, I'm more focused on the league winners and making sure I pick the right grand prize total.

Dyv · Post by **Dyv** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 8:09 am

I vote for higher league money. That is one thing I feel like I have 'some' control over, whereas the overall prize takes a good team, a good draft, good management and 3 weeks of good luck.

Dyv

Route Collectors · Post by **Route Collectors** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:07 am

I also am in favor of higher league money.
Renman had a good point about attracting new players next year. The better you make the odds of cashing, the less risk in the investment. BWazz also stated on another thread that this was a one shot deal for him. Maybe increasing the league prize helps to retain more of the current participants. Greg - are you working on any kind of formal survey to get feedback from this years players? I don't know how diverse the incomes are but such a survey should provide valuable info toward marketing next years event. You,of course, already know this. I was just curious what you were working on.

RC

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:14 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
But to answer your question, yes the second through eighth overall will go up next year because I'm planning on having more teams. However, they will go up proportionately based on the number of teams I seek to fill the event. okay. i don't believe you mentioned that in your original post.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:47 am

Yeah, we'll likely do a quick survey at the end of the NFFC season or just before the end of the season. I'm basically looking for feedback on ways to improve the NFFC scoring format, draft format, Draft Day experience in all three cities and prize payouts. It won't be a puffy survey to ask you what you think of me, Tom or the KP gang. I'm looking for meaningful feedback to improve the contest.

I haven't sent out a formal survey for our baseball contest, but I did e-mail a proposal with eight potential changes and the feedback helped me come up with some changes that will improve the contest. They have already been implemented and the format for this year's contest was announced one day after the MLB season concluded. We'll do the same thing for the NFFC.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 9:52 am

Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
But to answer your question, yes the second through eighth overall will go up next year because I'm planning on having more teams. However, they will go up proportionately based on the number of teams I seek to fill the event. okay. i don't believe you mentioned that in your original post. [/QUOTE]I don't know what those prize totals will be at this point because I haven't determined how many teams I will shoot for in 2005. The last thing I want to do next year is shoot for the moon, see another 10 high-stakes contests being announced in April that will fold come August 31, and then have to ask you guys to play under a different prize structure. So while I think we will have much more success in 2005, my early feeling is that I would rather act conservatively, fill it up and then create demand for every single spot at the draft table. Then if demand exceeds the number of spots we had allocated, we can either adjust on the fly or plan for an even bigger expansion in 2006. But I have no intention of setting unrealistic expectations for next year.