Player should get credit for any scoring!!!

mkrucek · Post by **mkrucek** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:44 am

Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
I think they gave Davis credit for it...didnt they? Yes, I actually didn't check the NFFC scoring - I had read what Snake had written on the other thread and assumed - stupid me - that it had been credited incorrectly.

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:58 am

Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
Not that any of my ideas have ever influenced the NFFC to make a change but.....

Players should be awarded points for scoring any TD's. A perfect example is if you have Reggie Bush. How can your own player score against you? Secondly, he gets hurt on "special teams" but who really gets penazlized? The Bush owners. Special teams continue on the player has to be replaced.

Please consider this change for 2009. Please, SERIOUSLY consider this and not put if off to the side.

Thanks

Daryl, I don't think you can have it both ways with this rule. If as you request that the individual player gets the special teams score, then the Defense/ST can't also get that score. It's not fair to give Bush owners six points and the New Orleans D/ST six points. And if you change to individual players, then it obviously makes the Defenses less valuable.

I don't have any problem hearing a debate on the merits of individual players getting special teams scores, but I would be against rewarding BOTH for that score.

--------------------
Founder, National Fantasy Football Championship & National Fantasy Baseball Championship
Editor, Fantasy Sports Magazine

Greg-

Can I ask your reasoning why you are against rewarding both defense and player for a score?

CC's Desperados · Post by **CC's Desperados** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:15 am

Maybe he's just OLD SCHOOL!!

jdoggmms · Post by **jdoggmms** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:43 am

Team defense and special teams should have nothing to do with each other to begin with since they don't in real life. In reality, football is separated into 3 units - offense, defense, and special teams. The boneheads that decided to group two of these units together in the early days of fantasy football is what is causing this issue because now fantasy football players "think" that the two units should be somehow linked. The kicking game is special teams and if anything should be linked to kickoff and punt returns, it should be the kicker. Either do that, and don't reward special teams points to the offensive player, or play without special teams and give Reggie Bush his points because it is true that whoever drafted him as an offensive player gets hurt the most by his injury. Fantasy football is not the same as real football, but if we're not trying to emulate it as best as possible, then what's the point? Just play a different strategic game altogether, like poker

[ October 20, 2008, 06:11 PM: Message edited by: jdoggmms ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:06 pm

Originally posted by Old School:
Greg-

Can I ask your reasoning why you are against rewarding both defense and player for a score? Why should 12 fantasy points be awarded for a six point touchdown involving just one player? It's no different than a rushing play and someone asking why we can't give six points to two different players on his roster. Either Bush gets credit for the individual effort or the Saints' special teams gets the credit. One or the other and the rules should reflect that.

We believe the Special Teams should get credit for it, but I can certainly understand those folks who want individuals to get those points. But then what happens if defensive backs are returning all of the punts and kickoffs for points? Then NOBODY gets those fantasy points under that system. That's not good.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:09 pm

Originally posted by jdoggmms:
Team defense and special teams should have nothing to do with each other to begin with since they don't in real life. In reality, football is separated into 3 units - offense, defense, and special teams. The boneheads that decided to group two of these units together in the early days of fantasy football is what is causing this issue because now fantasy football players "think" that the two units should be somehow linked. The kicking game is special teams and if anything should be linked to kickoff and punt returns, it should be the kicker. Either do that, and don't reward special teams points to the offensive player, or play without special teams and give Reggie Bush his points because it is true that whoever drafted him as an offensive player gets hurt the most. Fantasy football is not the same as real football, but if we're not trying to emulate it as best as possible, then what's the point? Just play a different strategic game altogether, like poker It's obvious that in the early days of fantasy football when touchdowns were more heavily involved, folks combined Defenses and Special Teams to give them some value and a reason to be drafted. Doing them separately didn't make sense and giving individual player points on special teams wasn't advocated either. So the two have been combined from the very beginning and are used that way in the vast majority of fantasy leagues today. That doesn't make it right, but it does explain how we got to this point.

BLACKHAND · Post by **BLACKHAND** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:21 pm

people with dallas d could use pacman as a flex and double whack you. maybe draft ed reed.

you have to keep it like it is. its the only fair thing.

jdoggmms · Post by **jdoggmms** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:24 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by jdoggmms:
Team defense and special teams should have nothing to do with each other to begin with since they don't in real life. In reality, football is separated into 3 units - offense, defense, and special teams. The boneheads that decided to group two of these units together in the early days of fantasy football is what is causing this issue because now fantasy football players "think" that the two units should be somehow linked. The kicking game is special teams and if anything should be linked to kickoff and punt returns, it should be the kicker. Either do that, and don't reward special teams points to the offensive player, or play without special teams and give Reggie Bush his points because it is true that whoever drafted him as an offensive player gets hurt the most. Fantasy football is not the same as real football, but if we're not trying to emulate it as best as possible, then what's the point? Just play a different strategic game altogether, like poker It's obvious that in the early days of fantasy football when touchdowns were more heavily involved, folks combined Defenses and Special Teams to give them some value and a reason to be drafted. Doing them separately didn't make sense and giving individual player points on special teams wasn't advocated either. So the two have been combined from the very beginning and are used that way in the vast majority of fantasy leagues today. That doesn't make it right, but it does explain how we got to this point. [/QUOTE]As the game has evolved, shouldn't we also fix things that were put in place based on a completely different scoring system? The majority of leagues today are more yardage based, so why do we still play this way? It inherently doesn't make any sense in today's game. If you don't think defenses would score enough without the special teams contributions, then you could simply weight the defensive scoring more heavily. I think that makes more sense than having the Saints so called defense have value because of Reggie Bush, when their defense, in fact, is atrocious.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:29 pm

Originally posted by THE_BLACKHAND:
people with dallas d could use pacman as a flex and double whack you. maybe draft ed reed.

you have to keep it like it is. its the only fair thing. Exactly Frankie. You could do that with Randel El, Bush and several others. One play shouldn't give 12 fantasy points involving just one player.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:33 pm

Originally posted by jdoggmms:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by jdoggmms:
[qb] If you don't think defenses would score enough without the special teams contributions, then you could simply weight the defensive scoring more heavily. I think that makes more sense than having the Saints so called defense have value because of Reggie Bush, when their defense, in fact, is atrocious. Well, on Draft Day you are drafting the Saints' special teams/Defense, so you are drafting Bush as a special teams player. It's part of that strategy as well. But again, you and I are talking about something different than what was originally proposed by Turbough, which is giving Bush and the Saints 6 points for one TD. My point is one or the other should get those points and I'm all for the discussion on whether Bush or New Orleans should get those points as long as both don't get 6.