Why the NFFC & NFBC is speciall...

[BillyWaz]

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I also wouldn't agree with the assertion that MANY teams want multiple entries.

WCOFF only had 1/3 of their entrants take a 2nd team. However, they also lost 1/3 of their signups from last year. Reading their boards, numerous players were upset and left WCOFF because they felt that those teams that had multiple entries would have a competitive advantage that they couldn't afford.

Remember, although the WCOFF allowed customers to take a 2nd team this year, their overall signups did not meet last year's total.

I myself did take a 2nd WCOFF team this year, but only because they discounted that team by nearly 40%, making the value something that couldn't be ignored from a consumer/participant standpoint. Are you willing to give that large a discount for a 2nd entry? If so, I can't see how that is really helping the bottom line I know you're trying to achieve with this move.

Again, look at WCOFF's example....
1/3 of the signups take a 2nd team.
1/3 fewer overall participants from last year.
Overall, nearly the same amount of teams, but 1/3 of them at a deep discount.
Result.....less profit.

Glenn OUTSTANDING points, Glenn!

I too have two WCOFF teams for the very same reason, but there is NO WAY I would have paid full price (or even close) for both.

[King of Queens]

Originally posted by Glenneration X:
I also wouldn't agree with the assertion that MANY teams want multiple entries. Agreed. In addition, many of the owners who take on one team will feel that they are at a disadvantage.

[King of Queens]

Good points made by everyone here, especially Glenn Lowy's post about team discounts. Paying full price for a 2nd main event team is, simply put, a bad investment for the player -- remember that a significant portion of the payout percentage is tied to the overall prizes. By default, each entry into the same contest lowers the individual's expected payout percentage.

This may be one reason why many owners like to play in multiple contests, rather than putting all their eggs into one basket.

[D-Day Heroes]

Drafting ONE team on one weekend for one BIG CHAMPIONSHIP , IS WHAT MAKES THIS EVENT SPECIALL. imo

If the Idea of Having a Player DRAFT MULTIPLE TEAMS is to generate more money , BE CAREFULL.

GREED has killed many a good thing.

If the idea is to make the contest more attractive , i would start adding some satellite leagues where you have to QUALIFY to ENTER.

Just like in Horse racing , you have to break your Maiden before you move up to Claimers , Win a Claimer before you enter Allowance , Win Allowance before you Enter Stakes Race.

Eventually tou would have players in leagues with the same CALLIBER PLAYERS and then you could put this whole issue of Luck in the Attic.

Because now you would have guys that EARNED IT.

I Think the Money will be made on - line ( Eventually you wil have thousands of players trying to WIN to get IN ) , The Live Event is the Draw that will keep them Playing.

Just my Thoughts.

[RyanHouston]

Lots of assumptions here:

1. Nobody ever said we were moving away from Labor Day Weekend. We enjoy the holiday weekend and no reason to believe we won't have an NFFC event on that weekend.

2. This isn't about greed. I think if anyone ever had a chance to try and figure out what these businesses make from a "profit" standpoint, you'd wonder why we do this.

3. Online can't replace the main event. Surely we can grow the Online Championship -- we did that over the last few weeks of the season. The Main Event and the Live Draft are why we do this and what we are looking to grow.

I'm going to keep listening but understand this isn't about changing the weekend, taking the business entirely online, etc. It's about finding ways to grow the Live Events and attracting more users.

An argument can be made that a lot of things you all have come to love about NFFC are the things stagnating it's growth.

Just keep that in mind -- we aren't trying to come up with ideas to ruin the NFFC. We are trying to come up with ideas to grow the NFBC + NFFC.

After all -- that's the goal.

[King of Queens]

Ryan, a lot of these assumptions are based on your initial post concerning an owner's desire to have 8 NFFC Classic teams. We all know it wouldn't be possible to draft 8 Classic teams on the same weekend (hmmm, then again... ). Thus, the obvious assumption would be that we're drafting at least some of these teams on a weekend other than Labor Day. If you're planning on having multiple contest dates over multiple weekends for the same grand prize -- at a $1,000+ price point per team -- there are going to be issues, many of which have been raised on this thread.

[Ted's Cracked Head]

For the bigger live challenges, I prefer one draft day and one draft session.

Owners can now have multiple teams and do so by having surrogates draft for them using their draft plans.

I would rather this not change for the 14 team event.

Not a fan of the multiple draft day concept for a high stakes event.

You can add as many as you want to the 12 team event but doesn't that spoil the double-header concept?

Why not two triple headers on Sat and Sun?

Session 1: 9am est
Session 2: 2pm est
Session 3: 7pm est

Saturday: NFFC Double-Header (sessions 1 and 2)
Saturday Night: Ultimate (session 3)

Sunday: Primetime Double-Header (1 and 2)
Sunday Night: Super (3)

Friday would again be reserved for the DC and Auction drafts.

[Glenneration X]

Ryan, I think D-Day might have been a bit too aggressive using the term GREED (in capital letters no less). I don't think anyone here is accusing Fanball/NFBC/NFFC of being greedy. However, any company wants to be profitable and maximize its profits....its the nature of business....and there's nothing wrong with that.

That said, I don't think multiple Main Event dates is the way to help your event grow in a positive direction.

There's already a 1000 entry High Stakes Main Event out there, and as I'm sure you're aware they're having their issues. Some of these issues were directly caused by the adding of an additional Main Event date and their offering of multiple entries. However, that's their issue.

Where this applies to the NFFC is that I do not believe they should aspire to this contest's model. If a player wants to be part of a huge 1000 entry, $300,000 pot Main Event, they already have that option and don't need another.

The NFFC Main Event is more intimate and I believe that serves it well. Not everyone wants to be part of or wants another huge lottery ticket type of event. As Billy stated earlier, the odds of winning the NFFC's Main Event is much more attainable. There is also a community feel to the NFFC that I don't see in the larger event. These are both reasons that I feel the NFFC is special in its own right. The loss of either would diminish the event.

I believe the NFFC had the right idea to achieve growth within its own constituency through the Doubleheader and Online Championship. These events are at a more reasonable pricepoint and the Online Championships allows multiple entries. These two events are where the NFFC can tap into its base for growth rather than the multiple Main Event entries idea.

I also don't think High Stakes Entry has room for growth in this economy. Look at the facts.
The NFFC did not reach its stated goals for its Main Event and had less entries than last year.
The WCOFF did not reach its stated goals for its Main Event and had less entries than last year.
The FFPC did not reach its stated goals for its Main Event.
The AFFL had to cancel its Platinum Event.

What did grow from last year? The reasonably priced FFOC.
What did exceed its stated goals? The reasonably priced NFFC Online Championships.

Nix the multiple entry idea.
Market the Doubleheader for what it is....a great Event.
Make draft day even more of an Event.
Market and expand upon the Online Championships.
Come up with and offer more reasonably priced innovative ideas and market them aggressively.
I think a reasonably priced Auction Main Event or DC Main Event might be something to explore.
Or come up with something completely new that's never been tried before.
One of your competitors offered something very innovative this year and it sold out.

Again, I believe the Classic AS IT IS gives you a great starting point for growth without changing the essense of the contest itself.

Regards,
Glenn

[renman]

I have always been active in discussions about how to grow our event. I completely understand the event needs to run as a profit and all viable options to make that happen have to be considered. On the surface I am not a fan of people being allowed to have multiple entries into the main event/classic. It takes away some from the purity of the competition (which I understand is an example of what Ryan might have meant when saying the things we love may hold the event back).

It definately will create a sense of unfairness to a number of players (not me personally but I know others will react that way). I think caution needs to be used when trying to milk the relatively small number of fantasy players who are willing to pony up this kind of money to play this game. I have seen this strategy before in other types of high stakes competitions and it starts out good but ends bad.

I think the NFFC (as it relates to the main event classic) would be better served trying to stream-line the events, cut costs where necessary or possible (not drafting in an overpriced midtown location in nyc as an example) use the numerous side events and satellites to generate revenue, get rid of all the peripheral stuff that has nothing to do with the fantasy drafting experience...etc

The NFFC is well on its way to building the strongest foundation in the high stakes fantasy football market. We all know about the struggles other events have been having. Now is the time to take a machine that is running well and keep tuning it up to make it run better. Fantasy football is still rapidly growing and as long as the NFFC continues to stand at the top in terms of quality of competition, game format, stat site, customer service, payouts, etc... there should be a steady flow of new blood looking to step up to join the premier event. I goto sports bars, and just about everyone in the building has a fantasy team. Usually when I get talking to someone they have never heard of high stakes fantasy football or the NFFC specifically. There is huge opportunity here to capture newcomers as long as this event is run as it has. It can grow slowly via a solid foundation or we can rush a building up that may break some code violations and not be overly stable.

For the record I would absolutely not want to move our draft off the weekend we are currently on. A very small number of significant things happen between our weekend and the opening weekend of the NFL. Everyone drafts the same day and has access to the same info. It is a fair competition. The game is/was always about predicting what is GOING to happen. That applies whether the draft is the weekend after the Thursday game, our weekend, or 4 weeks earlier when many satellite leagues draft. I don't like how the Thursday game counts and impacts the draft. Santonio Holmes was taken BEFORE Chris Johnson in my Wcoff league. That is a joke.

I hope others get active with their thoughts and keep giving feedback to the guys who are trying to make this event grow.

[D-Day Heroes]

GlennX , Rmann , Great Post.

Ryan asked for thoughts i gave him mine , Ryan is a Big Boy , Smart Man , ( or he wouldn't have invested in this organization ) , I don't think he took offense.

Ryan said EIGHT TEAMS , not 2 , not 3 , EIGHT !

Anyway , I'll give you 2 reasons why this is the place to play.

# 1
When I was looking for a place to play , on-line , WITH STRANGERS , I wanted to make sure it was for real.
When I see these contest where they say you can win $50,000 with only $50 Entry ,( thats like betting a horse at 1000 - 1 ) Well , Pops taught me along ago if it seems to good to be true , IT IS.
IE. the Jungle

Greg and Tom set up Reasonable Odds and thats why I play here.

# 2
The Main Event , for some of us that are not wealthy , it is kind of a dream to strive for( as sad a dream as they may seem to some ) .

If I know that there are Fat Cats just buying up multiple entries , well then , It will lose all the Glitter that makes me want to grab it, and I'll just go back to the Track, if I'm looking to blow my money on long shots i can just bet on 3 legged horses.


Now to Ryans most relevant point , PROFIT .

MARKETTING , TV, The National Fantasy Show by NFFC and NFBC , There is a reason I am Bombarded by TV commercials while i'm watching my games , THEY WORK. Get some time on the games. How about a Publication dedicated soley to the NFFC and NFBC , and PUT them on the Racks in all 7- elevens.

You want more ideas i got some , but it may cost you