Let's Have A Fun Discussion About Fantasy Football Scoring

[Greg Ambrosius]

One of the great things about fantasy football is that there are so many different ways to enjoy this great hobby while evaluating the same players and the same statistics. Fantasy baseball is more rigid where you have 8 or 10 scoring categories and you accumulate statistics as you go. Sure, there are now head-to-head games and weekly/daily games, but at the end of the day a home run is still a home run worth the same value in most every game, as is a save, a win, etc.

But in fantasy football, you can have TD-only fantasy leagues, PPR leagues, no PPR but bonus points leagues, 8-10 starting players, Flex positions and Flex Positions that even include a QB, QB values of 3 or 4 or 6 points per passing TD, heck, even increased values for tight ends. Every league is different and every league has its quirks.

In the NFFC, we have full value on QBs with 6 points per passing TD and thus their values are increased. In another HSFF league that most of you are familiar with, they give 1.5 points per reception for TEs and in recent drafts I saw there Aaron Hernandez was going in the second round and Brent Celek was going 3 picks after Matthew Stafford in the fourth round. TEs have more value there. In other pay leagues I've seen, QBs can be used in the Flex spot and thus QBs fly off the board faster there than anywhere else. It's crazy.

Heck, even the drafting process is different in fantasy football. We use Third Round Reversal to better balance every draft spot, while most leagues use straight serpentine. As most of you know, I like to call our past participants and get feedback from them and yesterday one guy told me "I hate 3RR. I still don't understand why you do that!!" I told him it was for the players, to better balance out the talent, and I felt the data showed last year and the years before that that our league races are tighter because of 3RR. He listened, but I'm not sure I convinced him.

So there are quirks and good things in every game. That's the beauty of our industry right now. Some of you are planning for NFFC scoring while changing your Cheat Sheets for other scoring systems at the same time. Kudos to all of you who can do this. It's good for our industry and good for players, who find systems they like.

So with all of that in mind, let's see some feedback from you folks on two things:

1) Your local leagues and what unique scoring or drafting methods you use

And 2) if you were a game operator in this space, what would be your ideal scoring system? Would it be a mix of what's out there already, straight serpentine, 3RR, more flexibility on the Flex, what? I'm curious if a better mousetrap is out there.

As you know, we've changed the NFFC many times during our first nine seasons and even this year we scrapped the half point per reception for RBs and we're full PPR for all players. I'm more than willing to listen to your suggestions going forward and tweaking our system in the future if needed. So let me see what you've done in your own leagues, what is doable in the HSFF space and have some fun with it. We're definitely set for 2012, but I think it could be a fun discussion nonetheless. Thanks all.

[mattjb]

I think you guys have got virtually everything right. Full point PPR for running backs is the right move with so many RBBC. The 1.5pts in other contests for Tight Ends seems out of touch to me with the position now so prominent.

The only place I think the NFFC gets it wrong is turnovers. I love 6 points for a TD but -1 for an interception or a fumble is not enough of a punishment. The defence is awarded +2 for a turnover it makes more sense to me for -2 to go to the offensive player.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I think you guys have got virtually everything right. Full point PPR for running backs is the right move with so many RBBC. The 1.5pts in other contests for Tight Ends seems out of touch to me with the position now so prominent.

The only place I think the NFFC gets it wrong is turnovers. I love 6 points for a TD but -1 for an interception or a fumble is not enough of a punishment. The defence is awarded +2 for a turnover it makes more sense to me for -2 to go to the offensive player.

That's a good point Matt and we did survey our customers about changing INTs to -2 points for QBs. Surprisingly, it was almost a 50-50 split on whether we should make the change or not and in fact more people were against the change than for it. There wasn't enough push for the change this year, but I do understand your point.

I always hated that end of half or end of game INT that is meaningless and then costs your QB 2 points, but I understand the desire to punish them for every turnover. It's a valid point.

[King of Queens]

I'm a big fan of the graduated turnover model, where 1 turnover is -1 points, 2 is -3 points, 3 is -6 points, 4 is -10 points, etc. This, in my opinion, provides a much more realistic indication of a player's performance. However, I can see where this might be too far of a deviation from the norm -- probably best left for the local leagues.

[Max Factor]

I know this has been discussed in the past with nothing being done. If a Def/St gets 2 pts for recovering a fumble on a punt or kickoff, why doesn't the Def/St who fumbles get a deduction?

[Greg Ambrosius]

I know this has been discussed in the past with nothing being done. If a Def/St gets 2 pts for recovering a fumble on a punt or kickoff, why doesn't the Def/St who fumbles get a deduction?

I'm not trying to create as many negative points as possible Jeff. Heck, we probably don't give enough points to the Def/STs, so having negative Special Teams points would make those totals even worse. It's easier for a ST to lose points on fumbles than earn them on returns for TDs, wouldn't you say?

I'm not saying we couldn't go that way some day, but I guess my explanation is that we're really not into lots of negative point totals if at all possible.

[kjduke]

I think the NFFC scoring system is as good as any and better than most. Liked the switch to across-the-board +1 PPR.

Don't see anything else that needs to be tweaked, although -2 for offensive turnovers as suggested is a logical move.

[CALI CARTEL]

Like most others, my only knock on the current system is the Turnovers on Offense. At -1 they are almost meaningless to the rest of the scoring system, I'd rather they be eliminated all together or raised to -2 each INT or FUM.

Something that one of my home leagues does that is actually a better representation of Fumbles is -1 for each Fumble and -1 for each Fumble Lost -- so all Lost Fumbles are -2, but any Fumble that is put on the turf and either recovered by that player or his team would still be a -1. Just because your O-Lineman was aware and fell on the ball, doesn't mean you are excused from the fumble in the first place; turnover or no turnover, you still fumbled and should pay some penalty.

First year of playing I didn't like the QB scoring because I was entrenched in the 4 pt PTD system and didn't want to change, but that adjustment makes drafting quality QB's more of a priority, which they should be. I've preferred 2 QB leagues for years because of that, the 6 pt system doesn't quite make the QB's as important as the Dual QB leagues, but it's much better than the standard league setup.

[Cocktails and Dreams]

I play at lots of different sites and there are a couple things I don't care for at each, and other things that I like about each.

Obviously, this is just my opinion but if I was in charge I would probably start like this.

Roster. 20 players Lineups 1QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 flex(non qb) 1k(team kicker, not a player name), defense

scoring. 4 points TD pass, 6 for rush and rec TD. 1 point a catch no matter who catches it. A TE doesn't belong getting more points just because he is a TE. That concept is silly to me, much like backs getting less here in the past. Every player should get the same amount of points for doing the same thing as another player. 1 point per 20 passing and 1 for every 10 receiving and rushing. Low scoring defensive system. No penalties for kicker misses.

Straight serpentine and I would not do KDS as it typically needs to be done too early to be effective. However for any live draft over a certain dollar amount I would have KDS where you get your draft spot right before the draft. One guy drawn out of a hat and he picks where to sit first and so on and so forth. That is certainly the best way to go in those in my view.

Summary, would go with 4 per pass, 1 for TE grab, double flex, serpentine, no kds. Seems like I am beating up on the NFFC a bit, but I do like this game fine:) The 6 for QB and 1 for TE are the biggest things I don't like about here and accross the street. The other issues are just minor and enough so that I don't mind some having it one way and the others another. That is just how I would probably do it if I were running a game to start with.

[CALI CARTEL]

Roster. 20 players Lineups 1QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 flex(non qb) 1k(team kicker, not a player name), defense

Not sure I dig the dual Flex, that gives you the opportunity to start 4 RB and 2 WR, that's kinda ridiculous at the "heart" of fantasy football which was to try to emulate a roster similar to a real Offense.

Now, I'm not a huge proponent of sticking to that NFL Offense emulation, since I prefer 2 starting QB setups, but having 4 RB's and only 2 WR's seems a little strange to me considering the supply available.