-1 for QB Pick

[Tom Kessenich]

In my opinion, what Zeurlein did in Week 4 deserves merit. That wasn't your typical kicking performance. When you have a kicker like that (or Janikowski or Akers) he becomes a weapon. On a team like the Rams (or Raiders for many years), a kicker with leg strength like that becomes a huge part of the team's offense. I love Steven Jackson to death but the fact is Zeurlein has been better so far and I believe his fantasy total should reflect that level of performance. So Zeurlein should outscore Jackson or Amendola or Bradford or whoever else you want to name on the St. Louis offense. Why? Because he was their best offensive player last week. Hands down.

Just like any position, drafting the right kicker involves a level of skill in my opinion. Unlike other positions, it is easier to find suitable replacements during the season but I don't view that as a negative. I think it's comforting to know that if you strike out with someone at the position (like Dan Bailey owners have thus far, for example), you're not going to be saddled with that option all season long if you want to make a switch.

I don't see the point in removing a position that directly contributes to NFL scoring. In fact, there is a specific statistic that directly pertains to scoring and kickers dominate that stat. If you are able to get a good one, I believe you deserve to be rewarded for that.

[King of Queens]

Tom, would you agree that TONING DOWN kicker scoring might make sense? I don't think anyone has called for the end of the position here.

[Sandman62]

Last year, I did actually suggest eliminating it. But I've already backed off that stance and asked about possibly toning it down a bit. There will still be randomness and when a Zuerlein or Succop has a big game, they'll still out score underperforming position players. But that shouldn't be the norm.

[BillyWaz]

Tom, would you agree that TONING DOWN kicker scoring might make sense? I don't think anyone has called for the end of the position here.

It seems lately to be a pattern that opinions are being taken WAY out of context.

That being said, SportsDraftDaily (great daily fantasy games draft site) does not use defenses or special teams in their scoring.

Draft Street (another daily fantasy game site) does not use kickers in their scoring.

[Tom Kessenich]

Tom, would you agree that TONING DOWN kicker scoring might make sense? I don't think anyone has called for the end of the position here.

We can and will look into everything Glenn but I'm not seeing a lot of outrage over kicker scoring in the fantasy industry. That's not to say we shouldn't be out in front of things and we have been in a lot of ways over the years as you well know. But our scoring for kickers seems to be pretty standard. Are players in other contests and leagues viewing this as an issue that needs to be addressed?

I don't want to speak for Greg but I am adamantly against removing a position that directly contributes to how points are scored in the NFL. I am very much opposed to that idea.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Tom, would you agree that TONING DOWN kicker scoring might make sense? I don't think anyone has called for the end of the position here.

It seems lately to be a pattern that opinions are being taken WAY out of context.

This is Mike's post on Page 1:

"Then again, if we really want to question kicker scoring, why not have another resounding chorus of a little song I wrote last year wherein I questioned why we even still use kickers, seeing most of the ones we end up using weren't even the ones we drafted?!"

Where did I take that out of context Billy? It's obvious what Mike suggested for the NFFC game. And this is a scoring format that is copied by other contests, where nobody seems to be questioning the value of kickers or even tight ends (how many points did Jason Witten get in that format?). As Tom said, if this really is a hot topic then why didn't we discuss it during the off-season or when other rules changes were being bandied about? We never even added this in the survey among other topics that we all wanted to address. Now suddenly it's a scoring change we should make after Week 4??

Sure, put it on the list of items you want to address at season's end along with -2 for interceptions and 18 positions for the Classic again and dual points for individual players on special teams, etc. We're all ears here and our boards are open for any and all discussion. And we won't even take them the wrong way. But it sure looked like Mike was making a point of not having kickers involved at all. Maybe I just read it wrong.

[King of Queens]

We can and will look into everything Glenn but I'm not seeing a lot of outrage over kicker scoring in the fantasy industry. That's not to say we shouldn't be out in front of things and we have been in a lot of ways over the years as you well know. But our scoring for kickers seems to be pretty standard. Are players in other contests and leagues viewing this as an issue that needs to be addressed?

There is a similar discussion taking place on the Rotoworld forums. Might just be my perception, but it seems that people's frustrations over randomness in fantasy football is at an all-time high this year. One of the points brought up in that thread concerned kicker scoring, and in my opinion, the data speaks for itself.

[mattjb]

Is it really that different from Brian Hartlione putting up 40+ points?

[Sandman62]

Tom, would you agree that TONING DOWN kicker scoring might make sense? I don't think anyone has called for the end of the position here.

It seems lately to be a pattern that opinions are being taken WAY out of context.

This is Mike's post on Page 1:

"Then again, if we really want to question kicker scoring, why not have another resounding chorus of a little song I wrote last year wherein I questioned why we even still use kickers, seeing most of the ones we end up using weren't even the ones we drafted?!"

Wow! Did you skip over page 2 Greg?

Ok, if eliminating kickers isn't desired, how about toning down their points?

[kjduke]

If we are getting into the "why is that in the rules?" discussion, here's one that has bothered me of late:

Why is it 6 points for a TD, be it one yard or 99, yet a kicker gets bonus points for anything over 30 yards? Makes no sense!

Okay, one more. In non-NFFC leagues where QBs get 4 points per TD pass...but get 2 points for throwing a 2-yard 2-point conversion. Why??????

Because what differentiates a one-yard from a 99-yard TD is the 9.8 point difference in yardage points. Kickers need a way to be rewarded for greater difficulty too.

Then again, if we really want to question kicker scoring, why not have another resounding chorus of a little song I wrote last year wherein I questioned why we even still use kickers, seeing most of the ones we end up using weren't even the ones we drafted?!

Here are this year's top 12 kickers so far, showing their kicker ADP:

Player Pts Avg K-ADP
1 Zuerlein 58.6 14.6 16
2 Hanson 56.7 14.1 19
3 Gostkowski 53.1 13.2 2
4 Tucker 48.5 12.1 13
5 Tynes 48.5 12.1 17
6 Akers 47.6 11.9 1
7 Walsh 46.7 11.6 25
8 Bryant 45.8 11.4 6
9 Barth 45.7 11.4 27
10 Gould 42.4 10.6 14
11 Dawson 41.8 10.4 18
12 Graham 39.7 9.9 12

The average kicker ADP of the current top 12 kickers was 14.2. As you can see, just 4 of the projected top 12 are actually among the top 12. The average ADP of the other 8: a whopping 18.6!

IMO, kickers truly are the same as playing poker with wild cards.

I attribute this to most people being lazy when it comes to researching kickers ... ok with me, but like any other position it can cost you points. I have 21 teams with 19 Justin Tuckers, 1 Zuerlein and 1 Walsh as my starting kickers. There is some luck to getting the right kickers but some research also gives you a better chance for those who want to "waste" the time doing it ... like any other player on your roster.