Suggestions For 2013 NFFC Classic

[Glenneration X]

I'm not sure allowing a 4th place team across all the leagues into the Overall or a 2nd H2H team is really the remedy we want for protecting deserving teams from being excluded. There's a fine line between protecting those handful of deserving teams and allowing too many undeserving teams in. I did barely miss out on the Classic overall, but I'm also in another contest where I've won two of my three leagues just to find myself in their overall with what feels like half the rest of the contest. I'm sure there's a middle ground that may be a bit fairer to all sides. Still and though it's a tough call, when looking at it from both sides of the spectrum, those times when I do make it in I want to have the better shot at winning it all.

I also think $100K when compared to $75K means a whole lot more than just the $25K difference in dollars. As Matt & Jules pointed out, perception is huge and that six figure carrot creates a whole different perception especially when choosing between the Classic and various other contests offering $150-200K. Though I wonder if Jared is wrong in wanting to keep this contest a niche contest, 200-300 strong, played only by the hardcore. Not every contest can achieve the numbers WCOFF used to or the FFPC does now, nor honestly should we want them to.

[ForLoveOfTheGame]

Agree with your post Glenn, especially the "those times when I do make it in I want to have the better shot at winning it all." part!

I'm all for the Classic growing, just not letting a 4th team into the playoffs. I'd be THRILLED to see the Classic with 25-30 leagues next year if only three teams make the playoffs still. Letting the 4th team in just waters down the pool with teams that Greg's numbers show have finished by a good amount behind and in my eyes should have 0 chance at the grand prize. Still, I'm open for some of the ideas that let high scoring teams in high scoring leagues in even though the wild card seems to be there for that to me, maybe it should be expanded some.

One thing I'll say for sure with a ton of different proposals being thrown around (and no offense to anyone, not targeting a specific proposal, just tossing random-ish examples) is I don't think you can have a game where a 4th team gets in if they are within 2% of the points leader or if this league has 20,000 total points then another team gets in or just something that is a bit overwhelming to figure out. I've never seen a league like that succeed. I think people often forget the rules need to be pretty simple and easy to understand or people are turned off by them

[E2A]

I would not change anything about the classic other than trying to get the overall prize up to 100 gs. I will be playing in every classic league they offer next year or as many as I can possibly get drafted. Wish I would have played in more of these this year. Great Job Greg keep up the fine work and I will see you in 2013.

[JETS SB]

My proposal was not to automatically let a 4th team in. I proposed allowing a 4th team in when the H2H winner is not in the top 3 in points, in that particular league, therefore allowing the 3 top points leaders in each league, a spot in the playoffs. Not far off from what we have now, with the 15% rule, but more specific to individual leagues, more than a broad wild card. Its really not that difficult or hard to comprehend.

If you want to scrap the H2H version of my proposal, thats fine, but really there is no reason to not make the wild card (pts) addition. If we are truly awarding the top 3 teams in every league, this "small" adjustment to the playoff structure will be well received. We already have a wild card, its not like we are really adding that many more teams into the playoffs than the current structure.

And if you didn't already know this, I would not have made the playoffs in my proposed structure. This isn't sour grapes. But a team in my Classic did lose out as the 53rd ranked overall team, and 3rd ranked points team, while a team ranked 185th made it in as the H2H winner. I believe that is something that needs to be adjusted.

If it doesn't happen, so be it. I am still in the Classic next year, either way. And $100K would be a nice top prize. I like it!

[Chi_Town_FEW]

The Classic has a couple of things working against it. One is what Jules said about people trying new things. You mention 14 teams to some people and they look at you like you are crazy. But they will play multiple 12 team leagues thinking they have a real shot at the big prize. The other is that it is really hard to put together solid team. All the die hards who continue to play in the Classic understand this. They know you have to be weak somewhere. Or will be weak somewhere. How weak is the question. Much more strategy must go into building a team from where you pick then in a traditional 12 team league. That said I feel that is why all who play the 14 team format love it.
For the new people to the space I feel they are looking for that new challenge but if they dont meet with success early after a year or two they move back to the 12 team format where there is a greater comfort level for them. Meaning they feel like they have a shot and if the team doesnt work out they can blame it on injuries or whatever but feel like they will have a chance next time. While if they dont have success in the 14 team format they feel it is because of the 14 teams before other reasons. The free agent pool must just seem ridiculous to the new player also.
I posted something similar to this on another thread but will repeat and if you think it is garbage just kick it to the curb. Keep the H to H separate from the total points. Send the top 3 point leaders to the championship round for the grand prize. Best teams score the most points. Then take maybe 8 teams from the H to H standings for week 14, 4 teams left for 15, and 2 left for 16. You can even have the last two teams play week 16 and 17 total points if you want to stretch it out. I dont mean for this H to H playoff to take a lot of the money. 11,500 total pool, maybe 3000/3000 for 1 and 2 points and 1500 for 3, 2000 for the 3 week winner of teams 1 and 2 in points and allocate the remaining 2000 to the H to H playoffs how ever you think is fair. The top 3 point teams should be in the H to H also to have a shot at more money. This will keep more teams involved till the end.
I did not get in the the Classic this year but have been in it the previous 4 or 5 years and will be back next year, this year was strictly financial. I am not a fan of the H to H(no luck with it is probably why) but many are and maybe something like this would bring more people in with out sending to many teams to the grand prize round.

[Sandman62]

My proposal was not to automatically let a 4th team in. I proposed allowing a 4th team in when the H2H winner is not in the top 3 in points, in that particular league, therefore allowing the 3 top points leaders in each league, a spot in the playoffs. Not far off from what we have now, with the 15% rule, but more specific to individual leagues, more than a broad wild card. Its really not that difficult or hard to comprehend.

But even in our league, where the H2H winner was not in the top 3 in points, this would've let in a 3rd place points team who was 82 points back from the 2nd, yet less than 53 ahead of 4th. IMO, this was a case of a 3rd scorer whose points aren't close enough to the top 2 to justify a spot. If that team were to make the playoffs - when it was just 53rd among 252 teams (top 21%) in points - then we'd be having another discussion about all the other teams within the top overall 21% who didn't make it.

I agree with Glenn:

I'm not sure allowing a 4th place team across all the leagues into the Overall or a 2nd H2H team is really the remedy we want for protecting deserving teams from being excluded. There's a fine line between protecting those handful of deserving teams and allowing too many undeserving teams in.

If we just blindly let in any 3rd high scorer when the H2H champ isn't in the top 3, there could be a lot of these less-deserving teams flooding the playoffs.

I understand that my percentage-based idea isn't mainstream and I do realize the impact that could have in business terms (though maybe with a brief explanation of its purpose, many would appreciate it?). But it was a minor tweak to an already-stellar system to assure not leaving behind any truly deserving teams, based on the "just missed" factor of their specific league. At the same time, it doesn't let in even more less-deserving teams (by using a more arbitrary "points behind 3rd" or "3rd highest scorer when H2H not in top 3" or "2nd H2H", etc.). And it would also have covered cases when there were multiple "just missed" teams close to qualifying by points.

Sandman I believe I liked your proposal but honestly I've read a ton of suggestions this week for stuff and some has bled together, if you know where it is can you post it here?

Here is the simplest version of my proposal:
ANY team within 1% (or 2%?) of the last team in their league who qualified by points makes the playoffs as a league wildcard.
Is this really more difficult to understand than the 15% overall playoff wildcards? It's as simple as "There are two types of wildcard teams: one based on points within your league, the other based on points among the entire competition".

Though I understand that many people seem to want to limit these extra wildcard spots to just the overall playoffs, I still wouldn't mind seeing them (and the current 3rd place teams) also make their league playoffs. I realize that this could make it impossible to crown a "League Champ" because 3 different teams could win the H2H, Regular Season Points, and Playoffs. But which team is less likely to return next year - the H2H or Reg. Season Pts. champ who didn't also win the Playoffs, or the team who didn't earn a dime (by missing playoffs), despite being only a few points behind the 3rd place points team? In the end, if the goal is to grow this event (which also requires many returning players), keeping as many deserving teams as possible in the hunt might help.

[BLACKHAND]

You guys are knocking yourselves out on simple rules proposals. I can figure that out to hopefully take care of all deserving teams.

I was hoping for something special, like WE MUST HAVE A $100,000 GRAND PRIZE. Or get back to 18 man rosters. Or host a special Classic party in Las Vegas with special side offerings or prizes. Something I hadn't thought of yet; not just 3rd place total points in each league are guaranteed a Championship Round spot. I'm on that.

How about a 10-year owner only draft! Could we get enough in Vegas to fill a Classic?

I'd be up for that.....and how about some "kickback" for those owners, Greg?

A 10 year "thanks for the thousands of dollars you spent", draft? 100% payback?

like this billy. very good idea.

[Greg Ambrosius]

I would not change anything about the classic other than trying to get the overall prize up to 100 gs. I will be playing in every classic league they offer next year or as many as I can possibly get drafted. Wish I would have played in more of these this year. Great Job Greg keep up the fine work and I will see you in 2013.

There, now these are REAL suggestions. Let me just say that I agree that there is a big difference between $75,000 and $100,000 and I do believe that folks when they see the odds of winning the top prize in the Classic will like this format if the carrot is big enough. But I also must say that we've sold out the Classic just ONCE in 9 years and even last year's 252 teams was far short of our goal of 322. So to add $25,000 more to the top prize means we'd need 70 more teams to our original goal to be a sellout.

Can we do that? Probably not. But consider a $100,000 grand prize, $7,000 top league prize, $11,500 in league prizes and a 1 in 70 chance of winning in the Championship Round. It would be a fantastic contest. But now we need to find the promotional might to SELL IT OUT!!

Tom and I aren't afraid to stick our neck out for the 14-team format. We've done it for 9 years. But we also don't want to lose our necks like a turkey before Thanksgiving. So we have to be smart here. But I'll consider it all.

[Greg Ambrosius]

How about a 10-year owner only draft! Could we get enough in Vegas to fill a Classic?

I'd be up for that.....and how about some "kickback" for those owners, Greg?

A 10 year "thanks for the thousands of dollars you spent", draft? 100% payback?

In the NFBC, we had 70 Charter Members from 2004 still playing in 2012. For our 10th anniversary draft in Las Vegas March 22-24 we're working on something nice to honor them. In 2009, as you know, we made special Charter Member hats for our NFBC and NFFC owners, of which each of you got one. We will have a special party/presentation for our 10th anniversary of the NFFC and I'm trying to work up something special here, too.

A special draft sounds interesting, but let's see how many originals we have from 2004 first and then go from there. We definitely want to honor our Charter Members and if they still want to knock heads together we'll see what we can do.

like this billy. very good idea.[/quote]

[Greg Ambrosius]

The Classic can easily be kept at 322 teams and prizes of:

$100,000 - 1st place overall with same Top 2nd to 8th overall prizes
League prizes of:
1st - $7,000
2nd - $3,000
3rd - $1,500

with a slight bump in the Classic entry fee. I don't want to increase the entry a second straight year here, but a $50 or $100 bump would do it by itself. Would that be seen as a negative or would the $100,000 be a big positive?