Analyzing NFFC Primetime Playoff Format

renman · Post by **renman** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:15 am

Originally posted by Jersey Dawg:
After reading through all of this, I have come to the conclusion that the 13 week season is the best format. However, there seems to be a valid reason to have some sort of playoff for the majoriy of the league money, perhaps with three teams in the chase, possibly four.

As the Franchise mentioned, some sort of immediate payout to the best record and the most points at the conclusion of week 13. Then a race to see who wins the rest of the league money in weeks 14-16. I have no reason not to include all 3 or 4 teams in the chase for $100K either. The more, the merrier.

Pete Not that we are voting, but my vote would be for this.

-Some cash reward for regular season excellence for the top h2h and points leaders.

-Some cash prizes up for grabs among those aforementioned teams along with 1 or 2 more teams who were among the best in the league.

-I have no problem with 4 teams making the post season chase for the top overall prizes.

-I prefer the 3 week total points sprint as opposed to h2h single game elimination as the playoff format.

kjduke · Post by **kjduke** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:55 am

Originally posted by Al R G:
I will be going into my last week of my classic league, tied for 1st place in H2H with multiple teams at 8-4. I started the season off 0-3.... won 8 out of the last 9 and have been the best team in my league during those 9 weeks, with a great chance to win the championship, but wait, I have no chance of finishing in the money or making any playoffs, due to my bad start..... THAT being said, I believe the Classic and Auction setup are best to stay the same. Change the Primetime, if any setup at all and I would be fine with everything the same next year. It works, don't change it. My above scenario could have easily improved by getting off to a better start.. Great example.

Suppose out of the gate a team loses Jamaal Charles and Jahvid Best and averages 110 pts over their first three weeks. The first question is, do we want this team to quit?

Suppose they go out and get (or had on their bench) D Murray, Ben Tate and Michael Bush then go on a run, reeling off a bunch of wins with consistent 130-140 pt weeks. They may be no better than middle of the pack in points late in the season, but they've done a great job managing under the circumstances and have one of the strongest teams in the league late in the season because of bench and FAAB management.

They're still unlikely to get that one H2H spot because there's probably at least one team with a good record and a high point total. But they let's say they're 2nd in H2H and 6th or 7th in points. Is this an obviously undeserving playoff team?

Now suppose the last playoff spot goes to the team which is 4th in points - they've had no major injuries all season, but their team is fading down the stretch after a hot start because of poor depth and a lack of FAAB additions. Is this team clearly more deserving than the second-best H2H team?

My point is that "points" alone is not the holy grail of who has the best team, or who has managed best. Opening up the playoff to the top two teams in each category that count (points and wins), gives everyone a simple objective to shoot for - to be the best or runner-up in one of the two things that count - and that gets you a ticket to the post-season. And if an "undeserving" H2H team slides into the post-season, they're unlikely to win anything over a 3-week run if they didn't deserve to be there in the first place.

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:25 am

Greg,

I completely disagree with you that people are predominantly choosing a high stakes fantasy football event based upon the size of the grand prize. I know that you have felt that way for some time but it's funny that I have never heard that from a single high stakes player as to why the chose one contest verses another. I can share with you what I think the reasons are.

1. Your competition runs it as an event. It's not just showing up at a hotel and doing a draft. You are basically buying entertainment in addition to the fantasy football.

2. Your competition has been more "main stream" with the rules. I absolutely LOVE kds and 3rr but I can't tell you how many times I have heard people say it's ridiculous. I fully believe they say this not because it's a bad idea, but only because they don't understand it so they dismiss it. I used to do a lot of mock drafts on mock draft central and the guys how got into those drafts would just go off on how bad the 3rr is. I would try to explain - sometimes successfully, sometimes not, but the point is that people often react negatively to things that are different. Should you change it - NO. But it has to be dealt with so in a way that people understand it and want leagues with 3RR and kds.

3. Promotion. Your competition has found a great partnership that has lead to a lot of new customers. It's possible if not likely that your partnerships haven't had nearly as much impact on your business. It could even be said that Fanball hurt your business as opposed to growing it.

4. Timing - you have been historically centered around Labor Day weekend while your competition was able to really capitalize on the hole left by WCOFF on opening weekend.

5. Relationships. I don't mean between the operator and the customers. What I do mean is that because of the "event" feel and because everyone gathers together in one place, you really get to know a lot of the folks in your competitors contest. They aren't just names on a message board. This makes you want to keep coming back. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing all of my friends in Chicago. But there are lots of people in the NFFC that I haven't ever met. And with Chicago being down to only 3 leagues (and one of those not even full of live participants) there just isn't the opportunity to get to know a large number of people.

Your can write it all off as whoever has the largest prize gets the most customers but I really don't think that is the driving force in the growth of the other contest. You will probably disagree with most of this and that's fine but I really think I'm right about a lot of it.

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:38 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:

2. Your competition has been more "main stream" with the rules.
Hey Wayne, I'll let Greg address the rest but this point is something I've often been curious about since I've heard it quite a few times. I'm wondering why people think 3RR and KDS are "niche" elements but dual flex and 1.5 PPR for Tight Ends are not. Those elements strike me as even more niche than what we offer.

I'm not bashing them so no one should misinterpret this statement. In fact, my top league has always been a dual flex league and personally I'm a big fan of that element. I'm simply wondering why the NFFC is called out for having "niche" elements but FFPC's unique elements that they added to their game are not viewed similarly.

I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on this because it seems to me that they have added unique elements to their game that go contrary to standard fantasy leagues just as we have (1.5 PPR for TEs is actually further off line in terms of standard fantasy football leagues than either KDS or 3RR). I realize their elements are more in-season than ours but that doesn't change my point. So I'd be interested to hear why people only single out our event for having "niche" elements.

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:42 am

It's funny I was never a huge fan of 1.5 points per reception for TE's. But I actually like it now but only because some players don't do the math as well as they could and you can gain an advantage at TE because of this.

But to answer you question, it's easy to explain as is dual flex.

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:45 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:
It's funny I was never a huge fan of 1.5 points per reception for TE's. But I actually like it now but only because some players don't do the math as well as they could and you can gain an advantage at TE because of this.

But to answer you question, it's easy to explain as is dual flex.

Wayne I've never thought KDS or 3RR were difficult to explain. I can appreciate people not liking one or both but I don't think either one is all that complicated to figure out. The beautiful thing about KDS, for example, is if you don't like it you don't have to use it.

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:53 am

I did use all caps to emphasize that I LOVE kds and 3rr. Just try explaining it in 6 words or less like you can 1.5 PPR for TE or dual flex. That's was my only point.

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:00 am

Originally posted by Coltsfan:
I did use all caps to emphasize that I LOVE kds and 3rr. Just try explaining it in 6 words or less like you can 1.5 PPR for TE or dual flex. That's was my only point.

Wayne I understood your point Wayne. No problem there. I just don't agree that KDS and 3RR are complicated. I've always found it interesting that people label things like that as "niche" elements that are holding us back but don't view extremely similar elements (in my opinion) as being problematic with FFPC.

Again, I like dual flex quite a bit so I hope nobody rushes off to Dave and Alex and tell them I'm blasting their event because I'm most definitely not. I think adding unique elements to the game is a positive for both our events. It adds variety and I think that's something many fantasy players enjoy and appreciated.

Based on the survey results we sent to first-time players, both KDS and 3RR were viewed extremely favorably. In fact, those players were emphatic in saying they want us to keep both going forward. Did those elements prevent some new people from joining? That's certainly possible but based on what our first-time players have told us, they didn't find either one complicated or something we need to eliminate.

[ November 28, 2011, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Coltsfan · Post by **Coltsfan** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:11 am

Tom,

I like both you and Greg and I really want you to succeed! (And obviously you have persevered over the years.) But you guys seem so caught up in grand prizes and maybe it's 3rr or kds as to whiy the contest is growing the way it could be. There are a couple of other reasons that I didn't list here. But anyways, I hope that you come up with some great ideas and can drastically increase the size of the contest next year. There are a lot of former HSFF players on the sidelines.

Wayne

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:18 am

Wayne, we want to look into everything and see where we're falling short and where we can grow further. I don't think it's a coincidence, though, that FFPC's biggest growth came the year they significantly increased their grand prize. I agree with Greg that I think that's arguably the biggest factor people look at when choosing an event. I keep hearing from both our NFFC and NFBC players, for example, that grand prizes are far more appealing than league prizes. Greg and I hear that frequently and we heard it from many of our NFBC players rather emphatically when we discussed the payouts for the new 12-team Main Event we're going to offer in 2012.

Greg and I have our beliefs but we definitely want to hear from all of you. That's why we've sent out one survey and will soon send out another. We're not married to anything long-term other than growing our business intelligently.