3RR In The NFFC: Necessary Or Unnecessary Evil?

[RedRyder]

This is a post that was made by Azzurri on our Draft Results thread and I thought it was a worthy discussion. I'm going to load that thread up with more draft results shortly, so I didn't want it to get lost on Page 34. A few people have responded already and I'll copy and paste those posts over here as well. Have fun with the discussion.

Don has competed in our NFFC Classic and Primetime the last couple of years and has chosen not to return because of 3RR. I don't feel that I should get involved in the discussion now as I'd love to see all opinions on this subject and then I'll weigh in. I do think that with KDS we have shown that in many ways 3RR/KDS is working better than ever this year even without the consensus top players, but I'm interested in other opinions as well. Maybe as Don says, 3RR has run its course since LaDainian Tomlinson retired and especially in 12-team leagues. I'm interested in hearing all other views.

Here's Azzurri's initial post:

3rr has LONG past its reason to be used. All it does in 12 tams drafts is heavily favor the late spots and kills the early ones. So why in the world are they still using it here? I dont play here anymore just because of this 3rr in 12 team leagues and don't give the kds bs, that just chases people away from here also. The time to get rid of 3rr has come and gone, meaning get rid of it Greg, esp. in 12 team leagues. Ive been drafting since march and I have seen at least fifteen different players get picked #1 over all. that really should say it all about using 3rr anymore. No longer are RBs ruling this hobby, in fact it's quite the opposite now imo with WR's ruling it esp in ppr contests or leagues. If you don't take a RB if get a top 5-6 spot in a 3rr draft what are you left with with your 2 and 4 round picks. Im thinking in any 3rr draft you almost have to take a dreaded RB early, and now a days in the pass happy nfl who wants to be doing much of that? yet in 3rr im thinking it makes you have to. To give late spots an even bigger advantage is just plain wrong...3rr needs to go and should have been gone already. it came about to take away the early one, two spot advantage, yet now its giving that same advantage to the later 9-12 slots... then why the heck is it being used then?

Get rid of 3rr Greg id love to play here more. No reason at all to still be using 3rr in 12 team drafts or imo any draft 14 teams included. 3rr is the reason i don't play here hardly at all anymore. it just makes no sense whatsoever to me. It came about because of the early draft spots advantage, well now those learly spots suck to be in and late spots clearly have the advantage so why use 3rr and give those late spots even more of an advantage?

Greg, you compared me publicly to Ryan Houston when I brought up similar thought as the above years ago, but I'll take a quick whack at it again.

First, never in a million years would I have ever thought I would write this sentence: I agree with Azzurri. Besides the poor grammar and spelling, Azzurri made a good post.

I think it is one of the reasons the NFFC did not see as huge of a growth spurt as the FFPC when the WCOFF flamed out. John Q. Public wants things that are easy. Asking then to make an extra click and then read AND digest 3RR (and KDS) is too much. Let alone take the time to formulate a draft strategy. Is it too much for those of us that were already playing here, no, as we are diehards. Is it too much for those that are fantasy football diehards that are new to your contest? No. But I am not talking about the converted.

3RR at the NFFC is not enough for me to stop playing or promoting the NFFC. I have certainly found ways to make it work to my advantage and I enjoy the contests you and Tom run.

I'll add that I am glad the Cutlines do not have 3RR.

[Tom Kessenich]

Greg, you compared me publicly to Ryan Houston

Like Greg, I'll hold off on my comments about this until more folks here have their say but I do wanna say Jules that was not nice of Greg. At. All.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Greg, you compared me publicly to Ryan Houston

Like Greg, I'll hold off on my comments about this until more folks here have their say but I do wanna say Jules that was not nice of Greg. At. All.

Never in my drunkenest days would I ever compare Jules to Ryan!! I'll stand by that.

However, yes Ryan wanted to get rid of 3RR right away and for the reasons that you and Rich stated. He felt people just want to sign up and draft. They don't want any extra nuances and he felt it was holding us back. He also wanted one big contest instead of the Classic and Primetime, which I disagreed with.

At the end of the day, maybe everyone is right and I was wrong. Not afraid to admit that.

3RR is definitely needed for 14-team leagues. Depending on the future of the Classic, it may determine what our thoughts are going forward.

You've caught me at a weak moment. I wanted the debate on 3RR and don't disagree with any of the points. There isn't any question that even allowing KDS gives owners draft spots they kind of want, but is it impeding the growth of our contest? I don't know. It's a worthy question. I mean, it's not like the Cutline is twice as big as the Online Championship, but you never know.

Again, I'm listening and we'll see what the future holds. If people really want the Classic to continue, then 3RR will definitely be around at least in that format and likely more. If not, then we can debate all off-season. We want to be as big as can be as a contest and I wouldn't be surprised if some of my stupid ideas have prevented that. It wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong. Keep the discussion going because I'm listening. Thanks all.

[BillyWaz]

For the record, Ryan Houston was the "drunk at he bar" who felt he knew everything, when in reality he knew NOTHING. He set this contest back a few years. That being said, I don't feel that way about anyone else opposed to 3RR, just really hate what Ryan did to this contest.

Now, back on topic. I am FULLY supportive of 3RR for so many reasons. Here they are in "bullet" form......

1) Like Kotrax said, every contest needs something that sets it apart from the others. 3RR and KDS does that.

2) Like KJ said, it gives you a chance to "vote with your money". Why WOULDN"T anyone want a "say" in their pick???

3) Along the lines of 2, if I know there are 4 players I ABSOLUTELY WANT, and I know in round 2, my "desired players board" goes down to pick 21, then selecting FOUR first in my KDS is absolutely ideal!! Sure I may not get it, but if I do, I feel MUCH better going into the draft. Name me one successful business model that doesn't try to make their customers feel good about their purchase???

4) For the many of us on the boards, who own multiple teams, it allows you to diversify your drafts a bit. Lets face it, there are about 20 players that make up a GOOD PORTION of the NFFC. Whether you like it or not, that is the reality, and it is actually far worse in other contests. How would you like to play in 10 leagues and get 1,7,7,7,8,8,8,9,9,10 as your picks. Having 9 teams virtually the same would not be fun at all.

5) If you don't really care about KDS, and you feel it is "too much work", then it is actually very simple.......don't touch it, and get dealt whatever falls.

Just my .02

[Steel Lugnuts]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

[BigBlueNation]

I don't understand why we even have this thread.

[BillyWaz]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

[BigBlueNation]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

Agree, they DO go hand in hand..

[Steel Lugnuts]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

Sure there is, you can still value 12 and 13 more than 1 and 24, especially with the way the first round has been going lately.

[TOMDOG]

The person with the 1 gets to pick ANYONE THEY WANT.The 12 gets a chance to even the playing field by having the first pick in the 2nd and 3rd round.
That sounds fair to me.
And I do not understand the LT references being discussed in this thread,as this year there are actually 2 of them at the top end.