3RR In The NFFC: Necessary Or Unnecessary Evil?

[Dingf15]

I'd be interested to see which positions the last 3 years worth of winners (in every contest here) drafted from. Is there a pattern that the later rounds are winning? It's a fact that the way you win the league contests is by avoiding injuries and strength of schedule. You can draft the best team available from any position and think you're the man and then watch Jordy Nelson and Kelvin Benjamin blow out their ACL's...how's your team looking now? There is no perfect practice or draft method. People who play here are drawn to a format that helps equalize those who are randomly selected to have to pick late in the first round. It's not a personal league where last years winner drafts last because they won (like in the NFL), it has to be random. KDS allows you a pseudo-choice in your fate, but luck is still involved. Hell, this is ALL luck (and I don't mean the QB)! The best drafter on the planet can't chose his schedule or when the injuries come. You take your shot and hope for the best outcome. If you don't like 3RR then go somewhere else, there are plenty of sites to choose from. Obviously, plenty of people like 3RR...don't change a thing fellas, you've blazed your own trail and we like it!

[BigBlueNation]

Yup, they have this info, and what you're going to see is "It just doesn't matter". The league and overall champs come from any and all draft spots across the board. KDS and 3RR simply gives an owner a chance for an edge, if he thinks it gives him an edge. Where do you want to be in the Classic?, front, back, middle? IMO, it doesn't matter. I may have a preference, but it's still a crapshoot. You win these leagues by not screwing up the early rounds, drafting well in the later rounds and utilizing FAAB. If someone wants to bitch about a disadvantage of 3RR or KDS, they didn't meet the criteria aforementioned or they're just looking for an excuse.

[chriseibl]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

This is 100% true. Earlier rounds are obviously more important than later rounds. If you disagree, give me the first pick in the first 10 rounds and i'll take the last pick in the last 10 rounds. Every now and then, there may be some strange circumstance where 12 and 13 are valued more than 1 and 24 but that's an aberration. In general, you would prefer to have the earlier pick in the more important round. Even in the rare circumstance where 12 and 13 are preferred by someone to 1 and 24, that person would have to ignore that they are getting the higher pick in the less important round of rounds 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, etc... basically, without 3RR my KDS would be 1-12 100% of the time. Boring.

The only good point I've seen here in favor of eliminating 3RR is that it may be more welcoming to newer players. It sometimes makes more sense to appeal to the masses who prefer these leagues mimic their simple home leagues as much as possible. Is that as fair or as good of a structure as 3RR? No, but the best music, television, political candidates, etc... are rarely the most popular.

As for me? KDS and 3RR certainly helped draw me here over other contests when I started playing high stakes. I love it. Who wouldn't love choices? Freedom. America. Good night.

[BigBlueNation]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

This is 100% true. Earlier rounds are obviously more important than later rounds. If you disagree, give me the first pick in the first 10 rounds and i'll take the last pick in the last 10 rounds. Every now and then, there may be some strange circumstance where 12 and 13 are valued more than 1 and 24 but that's an aberration. In general, you would prefer to have the earlier pick in the more important round. Even in the rare circumstance where 12 and 13 are preferred by someone to 1 and 24, that person would have to ignore that they are getting the higher pick in the less important round of rounds 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, etc... basically, without 3RR my KDS would be 1-12 100% of the time. Boring.

The only good point I've seen here in favor of eliminating 3RR is that it may be more welcoming to newer players. It sometimes makes more sense to appeal to the masses who prefer these leagues mimic their simple home leagues as much as possible. Is that as fair or as good of a structure as 3RR? No, but the best music, television, political candidates, etc... are rarely the most popular.

As for me? KDS and 3RR certainly helped draw me here over other contests when I started playing high stakes. I love it. Who wouldn't love choices? Freedom. America. Good night.

Chris, I think you came real close to baffling with bullshit. Are you running for office somewhere? JUST KIDDING, I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts, hope to see you again soon...

[TR]

I must say, my first draft with the 3RR was strange and didn't really like it, perhaps because I was drafting 1st or 2nd. lol It was hard to get used to at first, and I can see where new members might not enter because of it, or at least have reservations. But after doing the 3RR for a few years now, I kind of like it. Otherwise, everyone would just put 1, 2, 3, 4, etc...as the KDS, why not have the 1st overall pick and the 1st pick in the 3rd round? That would be a huge advantage. There's some actual strategy involved setting the KDS with the 3RR in place.

There is no reason for KDS without 3RR.

This is 100% true. Earlier rounds are obviously more important than later rounds. If you disagree, give me the first pick in the first 10 rounds and i'll take the last pick in the last 10 rounds. Every now and then, there may be some strange circumstance where 12 and 13 are valued more than 1 and 24 but that's an aberration. In general, you would prefer to have the earlier pick in the more important round. Even in the rare circumstance where 12 and 13 are preferred by someone to 1 and 24, that person would have to ignore that they are getting the higher pick in the less important round of rounds 3-4, 5-6, 7-8, etc... basically, without 3RR my KDS would be 1-12 100% of the time. Boring.

The only good point I've seen here in favor of eliminating 3RR is that it may be more welcoming to newer players. It sometimes makes more sense to appeal to the masses who prefer these leagues mimic their simple home leagues as much as possible. Is that as fair or as good of a structure as 3RR? No, but the best music, television, political candidates, etc... are rarely the most popular.

As for me? KDS and 3RR certainly helped draw me here over other contests when I started playing high stakes. I love it. Who wouldn't love choices? Freedom. America. Good night.

Well said chris...3RR is huge reason why I've played exclusively with NFFC since the inaugraral Primetime Main Event. Without it would want top 3 pick every season...look at any NFL draft trade value chart and you will clearly see somebody with 1st 3 picks in the top 25 will have advantage over somebody picking from the back end. If NFFC decided to give this guy's gripe serious credence and followed everyone else doing the more luck of the draw non 3RR/KDS, I'd have to just do DFS football.

[TR]

Greg, you compared me publicly to Ryan Houston

Like Greg, I'll hold off on my comments about this until more folks here have their say but I do wanna say Jules that was not nice of Greg. At. All.

Never in my drunkenest days would I ever compare Jules to Ryan!! I'll stand by that.

However, yes Ryan wanted to get rid of 3RR right away and for the reasons that you and Rich stated. He felt people just want to sign up and draft. They don't want any extra nuances and he felt it was holding us back. He also wanted one big contest instead of the Classic and Primetime, which I disagreed with.

At the end of the day, maybe everyone is right and I was wrong. Not afraid to admit that.

3RR is definitely needed for 14-team leagues. Depending on the future of the Classic, it may determine what our thoughts are going forward.

You've caught me at a weak moment. I wanted the debate on 3RR and don't disagree with any of the points. There isn't any question that even allowing KDS gives owners draft spots they kind of want, but is it impeding the growth of our contest? I don't know. It's a worthy question. I mean, it's not like the Cutline is twice as big as the Online Championship, but you never know.

Again, I'm listening and we'll see what the future holds. If people really want the Classic to continue, then 3RR will definitely be around at least in that format and likely more. If not, then we can debate all off-season. We want to be as big as can be as a contest and I wouldn't be surprised if some of my stupid ideas have prevented that. It wouldn't be the first time that I was wrong. Keep the discussion going because I'm listening. Thanks all.

I have never been interested in any 14 team format..personally think being able to offer and advertise larger overall prize would be best way to grow the contest. Ppl always look at that large karat...whether it season long or a DFS tournament. I think being able to combine the classic and Primetime into bigger 12 team main event would be better way to do it then eliminating 3RR.

[COZ]

3RR is absolutely necessary. In a contest where (excluding K's & Defenses) we essentially have a starting line-up of 8 players (as opposed to Fantasy Baseball where we have a line-up of 23 players), to give Team 1 hypothetically the BEST player (even if it doesn't turn out that way by years end) + players 24 & 25 and Team 12 the 12th, 13th + 36 best players is a total inequity at the outset of "hypothetical" value. It does not matter what the player pool is in a given year, its about pure hypothetical draft "value" at the outset. That is just too huge of an advantage in a game with such limited starting line-ups and with an entry fee of $1600.00 to give to the luck of the draw. Everyone would go 1-12 in KDS. I cannot even believe this is viewed as a negative. It is the most equitable method of distributing players to balance the disadvantage of drafting late. Don't change. Please. This is a huge selling point, to me, in this contest. And, to me, the fact that people are now claiming drafting late is an ADVANTAGE just shows how perfectly it is working.

COZ

P.S. And the "we-must-dumb-down-the game-to-attract-beginners" is not even worthy of discussion. This is not overly complicated, and if these people cannot understand it nor see the equity of 3RR, then they are not likely worthy of bringing into the NFFC in the first place. And those that leave because of it, good riddance.

[The Franchise]

I personally like 3RR and KDS and would like to see it stay. With that said, IMO I think you could have a better turnout in the Online if it was a straight draft. The lower entry fee attracts the casual player, but with KDS and 3RR I think some get confused and get scared off after one draft or don't try it all together. In my line of work you need to stay relevant or you become obsolete with today's millennials. You need to appeal to the general public not just your hardcore users. That's how you grow rather than staying flat.

My opinion would be to keep 3RR and KDS in the Classic, Primetime and all the big money leagues, but change the Online to a normal snake draft with random picks. You will still be different from other contests because of the 6 pt TD pass and starting 3 WR, but you will appeal to more users because the draft setup is standard which is what they know and understand. Test it for next next year while marketing it and see what the numbers tell you?

[shark]

I completely disagree. The On-Line championship is a high stakes national championship with a $100k Grand Prize.
Are you saying we will attract more users to this contest by giving them the 12 hole in a straight serpentine draft?
I think NOT!

We likely will lose more participants to this event than we will gain.

So let's put it to a vote?

How many of the Die Hard veterans here would participate in the On-line Championship if we change it next year to a straight serpentine snake draft without KDS ?

How many would reduce the number of leagues they participate in ?

Let's here it Guys!

[KenGill]

Shark...
* This is not a democracy. Thankfully.
* How can you possibly make a decision on next year's 3RR when you don't have the numbers in yet from this year? 10 or 15 years ago it was obvious to all (or most), that the people picking in the early draft positions had a huge advantage over the end of the draft. OK - pick 1 - I'll take LT or Priest Holmes or Marshall Faulk. Then in round 2 and 3 I take a good receiver and Peyton Manning. Blockbuster team. And you saw a big advantage to teams that picked early. Now - not so much. I have no idea if an early pick or a late pick is the way to go this year. None.