Definition of Gambling

[JohnyFantasyFootball]

DFS is gambling. I think we all know that at some level. Like all great games, it feels like it is skill when you win and luck when you don't. I have argued countless times with poker players about this same issue. The game of poker certainly has less skill than DFS, but many who play are convinced it is a skill based game. Truth is...poker stars (celebrities) were bankrolled to create the illusion of star players. In simulated poker tournaments where one player is able to see all the cards of his opponents, the win rate is only 1.5% greater. This does not make poker a bad game...quite the contrary....it makes it a lot of fun for a lot of people who otherwise would not play. DFS is far more based on luck than season long leagues. Is this even in doubt? Without a draft, there is no way to prevent your opponents from selecting exactly who they want and a lot of strange stuff can happen in just one game. So, DFS mainly luck. Not as much as poker, but more so than season long fantasy sports. Its likely on par with picking stocks without inside knowledge. I think it is fair to say that it is a game of chance....and therefore gambling.

But the point should be....what the hell is wrong with gambling!!!! I will tell you who is gambling....the US government and state governments! The more they break laws...we have a criminal running for President (don't even have to say who, we all know it)...the more they put our future in jeopardy (we have a leader who is incompetent (don't even have to say who, we all know it)....the more they turn us against each other for political gain (we all know it when we see it)...the more chances they take assuming that us "normal people" won't risk it all to make a better life for those who follow us. They are gambling that we are all going to keep playing the game by the rules.

When do we start making our own rules?

As a start....we must....Bankrupt Nevada!!!!! Stop going and never go again!!!! Move if you live there....seriously....move. Take all your money from every Nevada based account you have.

Finally, take as much water as you can on the way out!!!

[Greg Ambrosius]

Well, here's a new twist to the story:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/139 ... ernal-data

[Cocktails and Dreams]

DFS is gambling. I think we all know that at some level. Like all great games, it feels like it is skill when you win and luck when you don't. I have argued countless times with poker players about this same issue. The game of poker certainly has less skill than DFS, but many who play are convinced it is a skill based game. Truth is...poker stars (celebrities) were bankrolled to create the illusion of star players. In simulated poker tournaments where one player is able to see all the cards of his opponents, the win rate is only 1.5% greater. This does not make poker a bad game...quite the contrary....it makes it a lot of fun for a lot of people who otherwise would not play. DFS is far more based on luck than season long leagues. Is this even in doubt? Without a draft, there is no way to prevent your opponents from selecting exactly who they want and a lot of strange stuff can happen in just one game. So, DFS mainly luck. Not as much as poker, but more so than season long fantasy sports. Its likely on par with picking stocks without inside knowledge. I think it is fair to say that it is a game of chance....and therefore gambling.

But the point should be....what the hell is wrong with gambling!!!! I will tell you who is gambling....the US government and state governments! The more they break laws...we have a criminal running for President (don't even have to say who, we all know it)...the more they put our future in jeopardy (we have a leader who is incompetent (don't even have to say who, we all know it)....the more they turn us against each other for political gain (we all know it when we see it)...the more chances they take assuming that us "normal people" won't risk it all to make a better life for those who follow us. They are gambling that we are all going to keep playing the game by the rules.

When do we start making our own rules?

As a start....we must....Bankrupt Nevada!!!!! Stop going and never go again!!!! Move if you live there....seriously....move. Take all your money from every Nevada based account you have.

Finally, take as much water as you can on the way out!!!

If I could see the cards of all my opponents I would do a hell of a lot better than 1.5 percent, I can promise you that. I would like to see where you are getting those nonsensical results from.

Now back to the regularly scheduled thread. Daily fantasy sports is sort of like gambling in the same way sports gambling is gambling. But it is certainly not a lottery. It is completely ignorant for that Neveda fella to act as though there is not skill involved. Hard to believe people that stupid would be in the positions there are in.

[Sandman62]

Well, here's a new twist to the story:

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/139 ... ernal-data

FanDuel told ESPN that roughly 0.3 percent of overall winnings on its site, believed to be in the $6 million range, were awarded to DraftKings employees playing on FanDuel. How much DraftKings employees lost in entry fees on FanDuel is not known.

As others have said though, how many more employees simply run their contests through friends and family (especially those who don't share their last name)?

[JohnyFantasyFootball]

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:
If I could see the cards of all my opponents I would do a hell of a lot better than 1.5 percent, I can promise you that. I would like to see where you are getting those nonsensical results from.

Although 90% of my stats are made up on the spot....this one happens to have a source:
Positively 5th Street by McManus.

But, to be fair....McManus was actually making the opposite point. He was saying that although it is only 1.5% skill, great poker players can do a lot with that tiny edge. If this is true...imagine what DFS players can do with a game that is 3.8% skill (that would be part of the 90%).

[Cocktails and Dreams]

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:
If I could see the cards of all my opponents I would do a hell of a lot better than 1.5 percent, I can promise you that. I would like to see where you are getting those nonsensical results from.

Although 90% of my stats are made up on the spot....this one happens to have a source:
Positively 5th Street by McManus.

But, to be fair....McManus was actually making the opposite point. He was saying that although it is only 1.5% skill, great poker players can do a lot with that tiny edge. If this is true...imagine what DFS players can do with a game that is 3.8% skill (that would be part of the 90%).

I have to be missing something. There is no way he could possibly mean the typical poker player would only do 1.5 percent better if they knew everyone's cards. That would be absurd.

[CoMoHusker]

Cocktails and Dreams wrote:
If I could see the cards of all my opponents I would do a hell of a lot better than 1.5 percent, I can promise you that. I would like to see where you are getting those nonsensical results from.

Although 90% of my stats are made up on the spot....this one happens to have a source:
Positively 5th Street by McManus.

But, to be fair....McManus was actually making the opposite point. He was saying that although it is only 1.5% skill, great poker players can do a lot with that tiny edge. If this is true...imagine what DFS players can do with a game that is 3.8% skill (that would be part of the 90%).

I have to be missing something. There is no way he could possibly mean the typical poker player would only do 1.5 percent better if they knew everyone's cards. That would be absurd.

Chad is right. There is no way that this can be accurate. Think about it for a second. If you are playing Hold 'em and you know everyone's cards pre-flop and nobody has a strong hand, you would raise every single time and a great percentage of the time, take down the pot right there. Not to mention, if you knew hole cards, you would always know when your hand was no good. You would also never get caught in a bluff. Why would you ever even think about bluffing if you knew there was already a made hand?

Sure, your hand can still get beat even knowing the hole cards but your chances of winning and making money increases way more than 1.5% by knowing so.

I think Poker and DFS are both a game of skill if played on the right platform. Meaning, luck becomes a huge part of your success the bigger the fields. No matter how great of poker player you are, you're chances of winning the Main Event are decreased dramatically due to the large player fields. However, a great poker player can have huge success playing in just cash games. Same goes for DFS. There is no doubt in my mind that a skillful player can win a lot of money playing cash games like 50/50's. However, luck becomes a huge factor in the GPP tournaments because of the size and the increased lineup combinations. Stick to the 50/50's and cash games and skill will always trump luck over time.

[boutrous11]

lol at that 1.5% figure. Maybe the decimal is wrong be two spots?

[Cocktails and Dreams]

lol at that 1.5% figure. Maybe the decimal is wrong be two spots?

Lol, yeah it is asinine.

[JohnyFantasyFootball]

Nah. Its right. Think about it. If you pushed the pot every time you were in the lead after the first two cards, you would lose a lot. So, lets figure that you wait. Then you would see the odds too often even as the hand went on. You would lose your edge and then sill push the pot too many times. Chances are, overall you would only gain a very small edge. I agree with the statistic. But, I also agree that this amount could loom quite large...much larger than 1.5% sounds. I almost always win at tournament poker and almost always lose at cash games. My strategy is to never look at my cards...if I have doubt....I fold. I go strictly on the vibes I get from my opponents. So, I have a pretty good idea what they have (I think). Not looking at my own cards keeps me from adjusting my read based on how I interpret my own hand. I have played in 94 live tournaments. I have never looked at my hand...not even once. I have cashed 23 times. I have never won outright. Best position was 4 out of 820. So, either I am really good (I doubt it) or luck has a lot to do with it! For the record, in final tables and cash games situations...my no look strategy seems to falter...I have no idea why. And, I am too stubborn to look at my cards....certain if I start, I won't be able to stop.
DFS seems to have less luck than poker in my opinion, because it doesn't matter that the value of a hand may change as new cards present themselves. The value of the team is not based on your opponents failure to realize he has a poorer line-up. The game always plays out to the end. Nobody folds. If it was poker, we would all put Royal Flushes in our hands and tie...but, its not...and that is where the skill, based on knowledge and percentages, comes in. DFS is not as luck based as poker, but still gambling. I will stick to 3.8 percent as a guess. Why not...I might get lucky and prove to be spot on! LOL!