Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

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hammer
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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by hammer » Mon Jun 06, 2016 11:14 am

Greg Ambrosius wrote:I have talked with IT about this and moving to our old way of one FAAB on a Friday is doable, but changing to include cuts from the Thursday Night Game won't be a quick fix. We are looking into everything, but again it's not something we have planned right now and we already have a lot to complete before the season starts.

So the question is: Does a Friday-only FAAB that doesn't allow you to cut players from the Thursday games become more of a negative than a positive? In other words, if we can't finish one part of this does it make sense to stay with two FAAB periods?

I'm definitely not against a Friday-only FAAB. I think we all may have over-reacted to the one Thursday Night Game per week and how it's drastically changed your work week with all of your teams. But throwing out this change and not being able to program a key aspect of this request needs to be analyzed. I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.

Greg, not sure why IT has difficulties with cutting players from the Thursday games (again, that would be optimal) but since that's the deal then put me down as someone who definitely wants two (2) FAABs. The only possible compromise/tweak I see past those realities remains what Erok said about moving the deadlines back to 11:59PM

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Cocktails and Dreams » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:49 am

This stuff was thought through in great detail by all of the companies back when Thursday games became regular. And even when there were Thanksgiving games there was a waiver period prior to the games. Going to only Friday would be really bad IMO. Consider these elements in no particular order of importance.

1. You have Palmer in a tough one against Seattle Thursday night. There are a couple QB you would much rather get off the wire and play over him. How in the world can you decide how to set a lineup if you don't even know what your roster is? This is the most obvious reason this would be really awful. Not one single league anywhere anytime has not had waivers run before the first game of the week. This is the main reason why that is the case. You simply cannot set a lineup without knowing what your team is for the week.

2. Think of how deep your bid groups have to be to replace a bye week kicker or D etc. As it is now you can just put in a few. If you don't get them, you have the Friday clean up period to handle it. Friday only, the already life sucking FAAB would become even more life sucking having to go through that garbage of putting in 7 shitty defenses to make sure you get one. Please no.

3. Fridays are a pretty fun night to do things IMO. High school football, after work beverages, dinner with the wife. Whatever the case might be. Going back to Friday only, really sucks the life out of the weekend. As it is now, we set the lineups Thursday, do a little cleaning up and double checking for guys that slipped through the cracks Wednesday, and then enjoy the weekend until Sunday morning. Please no.

4. Bell goes down sunday prior and they play Thursday. Nobody can bid on Williams that week? Really? No thanks. I don't want to play in a league like that.



Now, I completely understand that Wednesday is tougher on many to get bidding in. I really don't see why it cannot be ran 4 or 5 hours later. Why not give people the most time to get this done? All day Thursday should be plenty of time for people to get lineups set before Thursday game, even if waivers ran at like 5 am Thursday or something. And no news is usually flowing in between the hours the deadline currently is, and a potential late night deadline. Later deadline would really help the west coast people it would seem. This seems to be one reason people don't like the Wednesday period. This could easily be moved back a significant amount of time. The only negative is not being allowed to see your new toys before bed, which is probably a good thing for many of us:)

Completely agree with most others that not being able to drop Thursday bench players really restricts roster flexibility. Especially during a very critical Thanksgiving FAAB period when trying to get teams shaped for the stretch run. I can understand not letting people bid on Thursday players on Friday, as it would sometimes make the Friday faab more than a clean up session. They already has their chance on Wednesday to get those guys. Fine with ship sailing for the week if you chose not to go get them. But guys on bench should be allowed to be dropped IMO. You would never be improving your team by allowing this, other than minor bench player getting hurt in game and adding healthy player Friday. Pros seem to outweigh the cons the way I see it. Two competitors allow it as well.

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Coltsfan » Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:34 pm

Chad,

Everything you said is correct. But everything that is being said on the other side of the coin is correct as well. Neither are perfect. I prefer the one WW period and if someone does adopt that then that's where I'll play. I went from about 25 managed leagues down to 5 this past year as I couldn't handle working on WW all week long. It just sucked the enjoyment right out of it for me. I still love the draftmasters format. I can definitely see both sides to it. It might even be nice to have one of the national contests with twice a week waivers and one with once a week. That would be interesting.


Wayne

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Cocktails and Dreams » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:16 pm

The most important thing to me is the game being playable. The NFFC is big time fantasy football. I don't want little league rules. A Friday only for me would make it unplayable. Wayne's participation would grow. Probably some others as well. Mine would completely become nonexistent. I will never play at any site that didn't allow waivers before the Thursday games. The only exception to that would be if I had a free team of some kind with a company from last year. I have never played a contest where I hated the rules. I would completely hate those, and simply wouldn't play. Not having a roster to select your starters from prior to gametime would bastardize the game far too much for me to play. This isn't the same thing as the opening Thursday game, although drafting after that game does bastardize things a little bit. It just isn't really avoidable though. This is.

I would really dislike Wednesday only as well, but would still play if it were one FAAB on Wednesday(or early Thursday morning). The major issues would still be able to be handled that way at least. I will never play a game where I don't know how to set a lineup because I don't know what my roster is by kickoff. I couldn't imagine the frustration of playing in a 20k platinum league and not knowing what your roster is on Thursday, so you have no idea how to set a lineup. Not a plausible scenario for me in big time fantasy football. Can you imagine the debacles on Thanksgiving weekend? No thanks.

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Coltsfan » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:15 am

So Chad my point is that both sides have valid points and both sides have valid criticisms. People are going to have thoughts both ways on what is best.

Your point is that if it isn't your way then the game is bastardized and unplayable. I just don't see it as being unplayable but I understand your preference. I seriously doubt anything changes so the discussion probably isn't relevant. Nobody wants to lose your business. Regardless of any of this I'm hoping to do a few more leagues this year than last. Maybe they can move the deadlines back a couple of hours which would help everyone - especially those on the west coast. (I'm not even west coast) It's definitely a huge can of worms for the game operators.


Wayne

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by driftin » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:46 am

I play quite a few leagues too lol. I have to agree with Chad if NFFC goes to one waiver wire period I would have allocate my resources somewhere else. I am fine with moving the deadline back as long as needed. I dont care of it processes on Thursday morning.

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Coyote Streakers » Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:37 pm

The deadline on Wednesday definitely needs to pushed back later. As a fellow west coaster its an extreme disadvantage getting off work with no wiggle room on time. Those extra 2-3 hours the Midwest and east coast have are very important IMO. Pushing back the deadline to say midnight would not affect anything and would give everyone enough time to get bids in. That would level the field some IMO.

Being able to drop a Thursday player that was not in your lineup on Friday is a must adjustment that needs to be made.

As far as 1 vs 2 waiver wires I see both sides I really do. I personally hate two but love it at the same time if that makes any sense. I feel like a early ran waiver on Wednesday like it is now gives some kind of edge to players who can use assumptions or read tea leaves before the main stream Rotoworld and everyone and their work leagues know the scoop, I mean what fun is it if everyone knows the same thing? I personally like digging for nuggets and trying to read between the tea leaves, I feel this can be a edge to players who assume correctly early in the week. On the same token it really is a burden having to do waivers twice but I get the point of why we have too. I feel like just having one on Friday would probably cheapen the game we play IMO. A Wednesday only would be better than a Friday only IMO. These are just my two cents on these topics. I respect everyone and their opinions as everyone has different circumstances.

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Cocktails and Dreams » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:56 pm

Coltsfan wrote:So Chad my point is that both sides have valid points and both sides have valid criticisms. People are going to have thoughts both ways on what is best.

Your point is that if it isn't your way then the game is bastardized and unplayable. I just don't see it as being unplayable but I understand your preference. I seriously doubt anything changes so the discussion probably isn't relevant. Nobody wants to lose your business. Regardless of any of this I'm hoping to do a few more leagues this year than last. Maybe they can move the deadlines back a couple of hours which would help everyone - especially those on the west coast. (I'm not even west coast) It's definitely a huge can of worms for the game operators.


Wayne
That is not completely fair Wayne. I am also going to explain a lot of this misconception that my voice has some kind of power because I play a lot of leagues. There are many things that aren't my preferred way. There are actually very few things at the NFFC that are my preferred way(aside from the awesome live events). I don't prefer 6 points a TD Pass, I don't prefer KDS, I don't prefer 3RR, I don't prefer no drops of Thursday players on Friday, and I really don't like how early KDS has to be set in most leagues. I really don't like having to dig through message boards to find out when KDS is even due. However, none of those things bastardize the game and make it unplayable for me. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and can do what they choose with their time and money. I feel very strongly about never wanting to set a lineup without even knowing what my team is. I have never, and will never play that type of game. That doesn't make me right, and that doesn't make me wrong. I just simply would not play it.

You will never see me feed the operators a bunch of garbage. What I say I will do, I will do. They will never make a decision based on me, I can guarantee you that. If they did, I would be playing baseball with them again this year. They dropped the primetime baseball contest this year. It was the only game that compelled me to play baseball last year. They tried to replace it with 1500 online championship plus. I said on the boards that I didn't like it and wouldn't play it. I didn't. You had guys like Alan Greenberg(who disagrees with me just to disagree) claiming the online championship plus is the greatest idea ever and gave massive support for it on the message boards and laughably making me out to be the bad guy for not liking it. But when it came time to play it, how many of those same guys actually played? You can count on zero fingers how many teams Alan played. I would never do something like that to give Greg false impressions of what is going to work and what is not. Ultimately, these were not something very many people were interested in, even those that claimed it was so great. People like that can bitch at me for this and that if they want. I don't care, as my intentions are pure and that is all that I care about. I will never lie to them or give them false guidance. Another example is the baseball cutline. I told Greg I would probably do a bunch of those this year, since it was very minimal management. I pry would have done at least 20. When they were figuring it out, KJ came up with this odd scoring system designed to somehow mimic roto. The problem is you cannot mimic roto. I told Greg it was a bad scoring system, which I have heard turned out to be the case. I said if you go with any normal kind of points scoring I am in. You go with this odd KJ system, forget it. He went with that scoring system. Not surprisingly, KJ is dominating the game as he is gaming the system he designed. The point to all of this is that my voice doesn't matter very much, and so many people seem to think it does. If my voice mattered, there would be a ton of things done differently. It doesn't matter though. If they don't think it is important to know your team before setting your lineup, or not being able to bid that week on two teams players at all, and move to Friday, they will do it no matter what I think.

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by Coltsfan » Thu Jun 09, 2016 6:22 pm

I didn't mean to come across that way Chad. It's funny because I agree with just about everything you said there. I don't like 3 RR. I still consider it the LT rule. I really dislike 6 points per passing TD as it makes H2H scoring way too random. (I don't like the -2 for interception either while I"m on the topic......once again too random as half of the interceptions aren't the QB's fault.) I'm not crazy about the drop rule but I play in so few managed leagues that I really didn't even notice it. I like KDS and they have made it better this past year by putting it in when you sign up. But regardless of this stuff I like Tom and Greg and I respect them and I trust them. The live events are incredible and I love playing here. So even though I'd prefer some things to be a bit different I'm here as well and this is where most of my money goes in 2016.

Wayne

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Re: Is It Time to Move the 2nd FAAB Period to Saturday?

Post by kjduke » Thu Jun 09, 2016 7:01 pm

Cocktails and Dreams wrote: Another example is the baseball cutline. I told Greg I would probably do a bunch of those this year, since it was very minimal management. I pry would have done at least 20. When they were figuring it out, KJ came up with this odd scoring system designed to somehow mimic roto. The problem is you cannot mimic roto. I told Greg it was a bad scoring system, which I have heard turned out to be the case. I said if you go with any normal kind of points scoring I am in. You go with this odd KJ system, forget it. He went with that scoring system. Not surprisingly, KJ is dominating the game as he is gaming the system he designed.


As usual, spreading misinformation. The only thing you got right as that I'm doing well; the contest plays to my strengths - drafting and player valuation. I didn't expect you yo play because it eliminates your strengths (grinding the day-to-day and streaming) and it plays up your weakness (drafting and pre-season player evaluation).

As to the "bad scoring system" ...
• It's as simple as any other points-based scoring system- anyone with 4th grade math competency can easily determine player value, just as they can with any DFS or other points-based scoring system. The system matches up well with roto because unlike DFS scoring it exclusively uses the same 5x5 categories. Strategy is different, player value is highly comparable. I didn't understand why you were up in arms over losing the value of walks and extra base hits when neither count in roto, other than you like to argue against anything I say. Success in the contest is a matter of getting your projections right/drafting the right players.

• The contest surpassed all estimates for signups using THIS scoring system and will no doubt be a staple NFBC contest going forward, and probably the highest growth contest for the next several years. IMO it would've been a disaster with DFS scoring which I don't need to re-hash here as it's been explained. That said, several things need tweaking: (1) scoring for closers is too low (which I raised in the pre-season, but it was too late to change), and (2) roster expansion, which made even the limited # of FAABs far too time-consuming. I suspect both issues will be revised next season, but in spite of that it's been a big success even without a single Chad entry ... unlike the Primetime contest which lost money for the operator even with your 68 entries.

If you want to discuss further I'd suggest the NFBC boards because this has nothing to do with football.

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