Is It Too Early To Talk About The Classic's Future?

[Sandman62]

While I understand the sentiment of us diehard Classic participants who frequent the message boards and post, we do need to keep in mind Greg's intent of this thread - to determine how best to keep this format alive and thriving. I may be wrong - and I doubt we'll get a good read from just those of us who post - but I do believe that those on the outside looking in may indeed favor a 4th spot making the playoffs and getting some prize money.

[Sabretooth]

I like option 2 as well as KJ's proposal. 1 isnt bad either. But I would not be in favor of option 3 with no overall prize.

[Sandman62]

So I think most of us would agree that (a) the lure of the Classic is the added challenge to build and maintain a good team compared to a 12-team format. Some might also agree that (b) having the same number of playoff teams as the 12-team formats (just 3) makes it tough to justify the added effort all season.

The solution for (b) is to add a fourth playoff team (preferably by points, not another H2H).

Perhaps a solution for (a) is to reduce the number of bench spots from ten to nine?

In both twelve and fourteen-team formats, we currently draft the same number of players: 20. That makes for 240 rostered players in 12-team, and 280 in 14-team. Therefore, the waiver pool is reduced by a whopping 40 players. Again, for many, this is probably considered a positive aspect of what is intended to be a more challenging format. But is it maybe a bit TOO challenging for the more casual players, whom we'd still like to attract and maintain in this format?

Having 9-player benches instead of 10 would roughly split the difference between 240 and 280, to 266, leaving an additional 14 players in the waiver pool. That might reduce the frustration some owners probably feel when their team needs improvement, but the wire is so uninspiring that they feel helpless.

Reminder: My son and I like the Classic format, with its added challenge, and we've had entries for the past decade. So this isn't me complaining about the format. I'm simply trying to help Greg, Tom and Darik keep this format alive by answering their plea for ideas. IMO, striking a good balance between challenge and maintaining interest and enjoyment is paramount.

[Spaige52]

Some league has to take a hit. You added two leagues which cost you money. We did a silver instead of another classic which cost you 600. I find it hard pressed to believe you're not making good money on this event. You're adding leagues with multiple prices points which isn't always a good thing. There's only so much money for people to spend. My solution would be to get rid of the consultation prize and add a little to the league prize and then take whatever you need to that gets you to your premium rake.

[Coltsfan]

The thing that I have always heard from people who used to play in the Classic and quit was that they couldn't win. Let's forget the overall for a moment because that is somewhat of a crapshoot. But right now with a $1700 entry fee the breakdown looks like this:

Total Entries Dollars: $23,800

League Payouts: $7500+$3200+$1600 for a total of $12,300

League payout: 51.7%

(Just for comparison the Primetime runs 55% plus you have a 14% better chance of even getting to the league prize money.)

It's a fun event to play in but the reality of it is that 1) it's very difficult with the best competitors. 2) only two out of 14 teams will even breakeven 3) the waiver wire is so dry that if you lose a significant player it's very hard to make it up. Much more so than the primetime. 4) It's basically a total points league which diminishes the fun of the weekly games. It basically goes by record/points/points and the best record will have the most points about half the time or so I believe. That means that all of this weekly stuff really doesn't mean a thing. Teams get eliminated quickly and that isn't fun for those in that situation.

So barring a post season run then you are very likely to lose money in the classic over time. We already have leagues that are built around the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so not every league needs the same carrot. Last year I would have hated to lose the Classic. This year I"m a bit indifferent. I"m a seasoned vet in these things I don't feel like I can beat the league over time. I"m in first place in my classic right now but I don't feel like it means a thing. One injury to an early pick and I"m done with very little hope of making it up on the WW.


Wayne

[Greg Ambrosius]

Gee. Now I'm depressed. The Classic sounds like a downer.

[Sandman62]

I completely agree Wayne that this is likely a major factor:

I'm a seasoned vet in these things I don't feel like I can beat the league over time. I'm in first place in my classic right now but I don't feel like it means a thing. One injury to an early pick and I'm done with very little hope of making it up on the WW.

Perhaps a solution for (a) is to reduce the number of bench spots from ten to nine?

In both twelve and fourteen-team formats, we currently draft the same number of players: 20. That makes for 240 rostered players in 12-team, and 280 in 14-team. Therefore, the waiver pool is reduced by a whopping 40 players. Again, for many, this is probably considered a positive aspect of what is intended to be a more challenging format. But is it maybe a bit TOO challenging for the more casual players, whom we'd still like to attract and maintain in this format?

Having 9-player benches instead of 10 would roughly split the difference between 240 and 280, to 266, leaving an additional 14 players in the waiver pool. That might reduce the frustration some owners probably feel when their team needs improvement, but the wire is so uninspiring that they feel helpless.

I'm not sure there's enough traffic on the message boards to sufficiently discuss solutions to this. Maybe an email poll to current and past Classic participants would generate more feedback? Maybe even to ALL NFFC players because there may be some who have never ventured into a Classic but might?

[Spaige52]

The Classic is my favorite event. It's the hardest event with the best competition. I feel like you could take a smaller rake. Before somebody gets on here and wants to talk about running a business I'll give you an idea to help with the money. Make your early bird special payment due when we commit to playing. You could make money off the interest for a couple months. Then don't offer another discount for people to sign up later. I found it offensive that you offer a huge discount to add another classic when I play by the rules and always take advantage of your discounts. We left 13k in our account to take advantage of the discounts to ultimately not even get the best deal. The Classic is for the guys that want the challenge of being the best.

[Coltsfan]

Gee. Now I'm depressed. The Classic sounds like a downer.

I have to be honest Greg, I was pretty upset last night when I read your response. I felt like I was giving you honest feedback. I wanted to wait to post as it's best not to say something when you're upset. So I'll just say that I feel like I didn't deserve that.


Wayne

[Greg Ambrosius]

Gee. Now I'm depressed. The Classic sounds like a downer.

I have to be honest Greg, I was pretty upset last night when I read your response. I felt like I was giving you honest feedback. I wanted to wait to post as it's best not to say something when you're upset. So I'll just say that I feel like I didn't deserve that.


Wayne

It's a very honest opinion Wayne and it confirms my feelings that I had in Las Vegas of the direction the Classic needs to take. If people are playing the Classic for the ROI then it's probably a losing cause at its current payout format. You feel that all three finishers need to really make money to make this playable, especially with the very tough format. I don't disagree, which is why I'm in favor of much higher league prizes and very little overall prizes. I'd move forward with the Classic like that in a heart beat.

Yes, one injury is tough to overcome in the Classic. Actually, if you're a Saquon Barkley owner it's tough to lose him in any format, but if folks want more free agents in the Classic then we can go back to the 18-man rosters we had in 2004 when we started the Classic. Does that help or hurt this 14-team format? I think the majority would say keep it at 20, but I'm all ears.

Again, I appreciate the feedback and yes it was an honest way of telling us why some people have gone to the 12-team format over the 14-team format. We realize that and maybe the salvation of the Classic is with much bigger league prizes as you are suggesting. Turning $1,700 into $10,000 seems like a nice prize to me. Let's make it worth winning your league and leave the overall for the glory. Again, I'm all for that.

Our survey seems to disagree with both of us, but we'll see which direction we go. Your feedback didn't upset me, it confirmed a lot of what I had been thinking. Hopefully someone will talk me out of this change!!