Does Head 2 Head still have a place?

joetreff · Post by **joetreff** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:52 am

H2H is a necessary evil. I had this discussion with someone at the draft, if you pay up $1400 a year how many years will you play if you are a weak player and never win anything? H2H keeps a couple of weak owners interested for a lot longer and keeps the player pool full.

CDM's diamond challenge peaked and then began losing players every year. There were many tough players who entered multiple teams. It was Darwinism. Have no shot year after year and you stop playing...I was a top player for about 3 years, then lot of the fish disappeared and all the sharks now did 8 teams instead of 2 and I started finishing 5th a whole lot more often...

Still a lot of casual players in NFFC and it benefits all to keep it that way.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:54 am

Heck just change the whole thing.Lets go roto style 7x5
offensive cats. patd,rutd,rectd,rec,recyrds,rusyds,kicking points
defensive cats sacks,sptd,int, ff total points against

draft
2 qbs
3 rb
4 wr
2te
2k
2d
dont need a flex
Now that is funny on second thought just leave it the way it is.

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:09 am

Originally posted by mattjb:
I think all play with maybe 3 tiers for a 3/2/1 points system as someone mentioned in another thread would be good. Add a live updating weekly table and it's just as, if not more, exciting thatn head to head. Why is victory points a popular word and all play such a hated idea? Never could understand it. Head-to-head is a joke IMO, but is necessary to attract the masses , I understand that. I don't understand why H2H is more "exciting". Personally I think All-play is more interesting.

I wont play in any more 11 week regular season league formats. NFFC is great with 13

[ November 29, 2011, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Old School ]

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:16 am

Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
I think all play with maybe 3 tiers for a 3/2/1 points system as someone mentioned in another thread would be good. Add a live updating weekly table and it's just as, if not more, exciting thatn head to head. Why is victory points a popular word and all play such a hated idea? Never could understand it. Head-to-head is a joke IMO, but is necessary to attract the masses , I understand that. I don't understand why H2H is more "exciting". Personally I think All-play is more interesting.

I wont play in any more 11 week regular season league formats. NFFC is great with 13 [/QUOTE]I guess Joe Victory Points still incorporates h2h in some way, keeping the fun of beating someone each week. All-Play for 13 weeks is like just looking at the total scores on Monday night and wondering whether you were in the top half or not. Pretty boring for 13 weeks if that's the only format. But I definitely get your point.

I can't imagine having a team with Brees and Beanie Well and Victor Cruz and others this week and not having those points count anywhere. An 11 week regular season just isn't enough and God Bless Lenny and Emil for devising the first set of high-stakes rules but that part of the equation can be improved on. 11 weeks isn't long enough and Week 12 certainly proved that. Imagine how many leagues changed leaders this week in the NFFC. Come to think about it, I better analyze that data right now.

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:28 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
I think all play with maybe 3 tiers for a 3/2/1 points system as someone mentioned in another thread would be good. Add a live updating weekly table and it's just as, if not more, exciting thatn head to head. Why is victory points a popular word and all play such a hated idea? Never could understand it. Head-to-head is a joke IMO, but is necessary to attract the masses , I understand that. I don't understand why H2H is more "exciting". Personally I think All-play is more interesting.

I wont play in any more 11 week regular season league formats. NFFC is great with 13 [/QUOTE]I guess Joe Victory Points still incorporates h2h in some way, keeping the fun of beating someone each week. All-Play for 13 weeks is like just looking at the total scores on Monday night and wondering whether you were in the top half or not. Pretty boring for 13 weeks if that's the only format. But I definitely get your point.

I can't imagine having a team with Brees and Beanie Well and Victor Cruz and others this week and not having those points count anywhere. An 11 week regular season just isn't enough and God Bless Lenny and Emil for devising the first set of high-stakes rules but that part of the equation can be improved on. 11 weeks isn't long enough and Week 12 certainly proved that. Imagine how many leagues changed leaders this week in the NFFC. Come to think about it, I better analyze that data right now.

[/QUOTE]Isn't Allplay just 11 H2H matchups? Each week u get a W for every team you beat and a loss for each you dont. You could be 11-0 each week or 0-11 or anywhere in between. If you lose a H2H matchup 190-185, u wont be pissed since you prolly beat most other teams.

Local league we used that, and people loved it

Ry's Guys · Post by **Ry's Guys** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:35 am

Can someone explain the Victory points to me please. I think i get it with the 3/2/1 method but I want to make sure.
Thanks

joetreff · Post by **joetreff** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:37 am

Old School, that might be the source of confusion...All Play here is just slightly different. Finish in the top 6 and you go 1-0 bottom 6 and you are 0-1.

What you are talking about is called "breakdown" here.

We always used breakdown as our top tie-breaker in my local league, but that's about it.

Ry's Guys · Post by **Ry's Guys** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:50 am

Originally posted by felixflamingo:
Old School, that might be the source of confusion...All Play here is just slightly different. Finish in the top 6 and you go 1-0 bottom 6 and you are 0-1.

What you are talking about is called "breakdown" here.

We always used breakdown as our top tie-breaker in my local league, but that's about it. I think "breakdown" is the way to go! It gives you the best of all worlds. We all hate a bad beat right? If you score 170 points and your opponent gets 172 you lose. In breakdown you would probably go 10-2 or 12-2 depending on your league size. You would not just get some points and a loss.

If we want to take the "luck" equation out of the head to head this seems like the way to go. Your record would actually indicate how good you are. A real bad week would hurt even more and a real good week could vault you back into contention.

Also we wouldn't have to worry about a team giving up anymore. Team 5 gives up? No problem everyone beats them. It still has a marginal effect on the overall outcome, but a very negligible one.

I think the NFFC has a very fair setup already. This would be my one tweak if I were president for a day.

Greg Ambrosius · Post by **Greg Ambrosius** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:54 am

Honestly, that's the problem when you do something different than h2h: Most people don't understand it. I don't understand Victory Points and I've been in this industry for 20+ years. Someone explain it again. If die-hards like Joe and myself don't get it right away, how are the masses to understand it when they are choosing contests?

mattjb · Post by **mattjb** » Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:02 am

Breakdown is good.

In the league I started this thread on the points leader (who is 7-5) would have won breakdown comfortably. I would be in a very tight race for 2nd head to head and 2nd in total points.