Does Head 2 Head still have a place?

[BillyWaz]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
the argument that head to head is like real sport is so weak. in real sport you have some control over how your opponent performs. not in fantasy. It's not a perfect argument, but just because you can't play defense doesn't make having a consistently good team, week in and week out, meaningless. It's been a big part of the game since FF began. [/QUOTE]They used to play basketball with a peach bucket too.......times change.

[Greg Ambrosius]

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
[qb]Yes, the NFFC has come a long away. No argument there, I come back every year.

You're hinting there may be a better way - well, this has been debated since 2004 and I'm still waiting to hear what the better way is. VP is good, an equal mix of pts/h2h is good, all play and points only suck. Tell me what the next option is and I'll be all over it like 3RR if there really is a better way. Now you're finally saying something that makes sense.

Stay tuned and we'll put some scenarios together that tweaks what we have already, allowing for more teams to possibly battle for more money longer. And maybe even another tweak where a dominant team could win even more league money than we're presently giving. Both scenarios could be done easily and including your favorite second best h2h team during a 13-week regular season and a three-week league playoff. Now it's easy to figure out and even you'll admit it's better than 2+2.

[Sandman62]

While I certainly understand that H2H often does reward inferior teams... which of these 2 hypothetical teams are "better", if their 16-game scoring went as follows:

1) 180, 180, 180, 110, 110, 110, 110 ,110, 110, 110, 110, 110, 160, 160, 160, 160= 2170

2) 140, 140, 140, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 130, 140, 140, 140 = 2140

In this extreme case, maybe team 1 is good at drafting starters, but terrible at drafting a bench? Therefore, they lose a lot of games during the bye weeks due to lack of depth? OTOH, team 2 maybe doesn't draft as solid of a starting lineup, but has great depth and works the wire well and therefore survives the bye weeks with more victories. Are we absolutely SURE that team 1 is better though just because it scored more total points? [The answer is probably "yes" when WE'RE team 1 and no when we're team 2?! ]

I've been on (and am currently on) both sides of this coin. All I'm saying is that it's not always sheer luck when a lower-scoring team does well in H2H - and by "lower", I don't mean the 10th or 12th scoring team; I mean a team outside the top 3 or 4 but maybe still in the middle. (Though in the case of our Super, it pretty much IS a lot of good fortune that we're still in the H2H hunt! )

I guess all I'm suggesting for consideration is that, similar to deciding when to use AVERAGE vs. MEDIAN, sometimes consistency needs to be rewarded too, not just super-volatility that happens to hit some high peaks now and then.

[ November 29, 2011, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

[kjduke]

I'm still not sure exactly what you have in mind but I like the 13-week reg season, the 3wk playoff and a second h2h team getting into the playoffs.

[kjduke]

Originally posted by BillyWaz:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by mattjb:
the argument that head to head is like real sport is so weak. in real sport you have some control over how your opponent performs. not in fantasy. It's not a perfect argument, but just because you can't play defense doesn't make having a consistently good team, week in and week out, meaningless. It's been a big part of the game since FF began. [/QUOTE]They used to play basketball with a peach bucket too.......times change. [/QUOTE]I like peaches more than basketball.

[COZ]

Scrap playoffs. Scrap Head to Head. Play all 17 weeks. Award prizes purely on points scored. Every game counts, every week counts.

[bill1car]

I still think all play is the fairest system. Not sure why many feel it is boring. Under our current system, all the teams not close to first in h2h are basically playing in an all points league.This year, I took some h2h losses early so felt I was playing in a total points league only for me most of the season. My h2h matchups really did not matter much since I was too far from first most of the season. Is a total points league more exciting than all play?
My friend´s first experience with high stakes this year is that if he wins this week he finishes 10-3 tied for first in h2h but does not make playoffs.
If we are going to have h2h, maybe top 2 h2h should get in. In leagues I run we have 2 h2h matchups per week to help balance out the luck of the h2h matchups.
The answer may be to just offer more choices to us and let us choose. Offer a few all play leagues. Offer a few all points leagues. Offer mostly leagues like they are now. Maybe even offer a h2h only league.
And reduce the QB TD pass scoring at least a little.

[renman]

Bill,

What is "fairest" isn't what sells best. The NFFC still has to offer a product that is supported and grows. All play removes the experience of keeping track of your players VERUS another teams players. It is a "set your lineup and check the stats at the end of the day" format that can be boring for many.

Also, if you do not have a format that allows the newcomer or less experienced player a legit chance to compete against an experienced player they will not enter the contest. If they feel they are at a disadvantage the entries are stagnant and we can't have an event.

I agree with you that the NFFC can offer some satellite leagues with all play formats or total point formats (which they already do I believe).

But the MAIN event has to be a proper balance to reward the better performing teams AND appeal to the mainstream fantasy community enough to get solid entries.

[bill1car]

Greg probably has the balance right for the main event. One team gets in playoffs with best record, rest get in with most points. I still believe all play record is a little better indicator of the strength of a team than total points. Gauges week to week consistency better than total points. How about this if 3 teams make playoffs: best h2h, next team with most points, next team with best all play record.

I realize the format needs to be simpler to appeal to the typical football fan that may sign-up for the main event.. And h2h is what most football fans expect when they think about playing fantasy football.
I am in the minority, but high grand prize main event leagues do not appeal to me. I feel like I am playing a lottery with so much of the prize money going to one team out of so many entrants.

H2h needs to be a part of leagues designed to hopefully get a lot of entries. Not sure how many agree with me, but I would like to play in an all play league. I hate the luck of the h2h match-ups. Sometimes losing 160 to 158 while someone else wins 89 to 85. And, all play appeals to me more than total points. Do not get why some are saying all play is boring. I would still watch and root for my players and basically root against all other players. Almost what I have been doing last 2 months anyway in current format. Since I have been far from 1st in h2h record since about week 5, last 2 months I just root for my team to score well and do not even pay attention to who my h2h opponent is. Our current format is basically an all points league for everyone except the teams close to first in h2h. Why is this more exciting than all play? With all play I would root hard for my players each week, and feel good knowing that this is the fairest system I know of to determine who wins money in the league. But, I understand h2h needs to be part of main event. But would love to try a satelitte or Super League with all play.