Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Greg Ambrosius
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:08 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Perry, I don't care all that much about a playoff for third place. My issues are that 1) more teams belong in the Natl Championship; and 2) total points accounts for way too much of the NFFC on all fronts.

I like the auction setup, although I don't think we need to go six deep for the main event. That's the beauty of all of these suggestion threads this week: Everyone has a different view of what determines the best teams. There's an entire thread saying h2h is meaningless and total points should determine the best teams. There's another thread for more emphasis and value being given to h2h records, and not only for first place but second place too to determine third place money. And there are posts to add all-play to prove who really is best.

In fantasy football, it's not as cut and dried as fantasy baseball to determine who is the best and most balanced team. There are a lot of factors that go into that in the NFFC. We reward h2h here and we especially reward total points, as do most high-stakes leagues. As you mentioned, if you like h2h more than total points, the auction leagues and the Ultimate League are set up perfectly for that. Heck, Mark wishes the Ultimate League was total points through the final three weeks, whereas a lot of our guys love that h2h feel with $15,000 on the line during one final game. We have a lot of different formats that reward different areas of skill, luck or whatever you call it.

The main event does reward teams that post the most points over anything else. H2H is still important, but maybe not as much as some would like but even more than others would like. You can't please everyone all the time. :D

I like our setup right now and again Kevin, all the data I posted this week is there for you to dissect and prove otherwise that the system isn't fair. I just don't see it yet. But keep the discussions going as I like all suggestions to improve the game.
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Greg Ambrosius
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:12 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? It's a third level of evaluation that likely provides more confusion than any deep conclusion. So the third highest scoring team loses out because someone with a better all-play record by two wins and 100 less points gets the money, and that's fair? It's just more debate, more confusion and no concrete answer to who really was the third best team in that league. Total points, in my opinion, shows the better team through 13 weeks of action if h2h didn't clearly show that already.
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kjduke
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by kjduke » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:41 pm

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
quote:Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Greg, why don't you like all-play to determine third place? So the third highest scoring team loses out because someone with a better all-play record by two wins and 100 less points gets the money, and that's fair? [/QUOTE]See, you don't even realize it, but the total points guys have you brainwashed !!! :D

[ November 14, 2008, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: KJ Duke ]

pizzatyme
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by pizzatyme » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:10 pm

Analyze this...

My NFFC team is currently 8th in the league when it comes to H2H. I am 95 points from being the overall points leader.

Besides the fact that my team suxors, I still have a chance to get in the money and Championship.
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.

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kjduke
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by kjduke » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:12 pm

Originally posted by Just Russ:
Analyze this...

My NFFC team is currently 8th in the league when it comes to H2H. I am 95 points from being the overall points leader.

Besides the fact that my team suxors, I still have a chance to get in the money and Championship. How is your all-play record?

pizzatyme
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by pizzatyme » Fri Nov 14, 2008 5:06 pm

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
quote:Originally posted by Just Russ:
Analyze this...

My NFFC team is currently 8th in the league when it comes to H2H. I am 95 points from being the overall points leader.

Besides the fact that my team suxors, I still have a chance to get in the money and Championship. How is your all-play record?
[/QUOTE]:D Great question! You made me look. I haven't look at that once this year. I'm actually 6th in the league. This is why all-play should be considered!!!

If we used all-play, I'd have little chance of getting paid. As it is, I may beat out a more consistent team. It's still unlikely, but very possible at this point.

ETA- Kevin, thanks for showing you at least listened to my pleas... :D

[ November 14, 2008, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Just Russ ]
2008- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic.
2009- Didn't finish last overall in the Classic or Primetime.

BubbasHouse
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by BubbasHouse » Fri Nov 14, 2008 8:39 pm

Considered not getting into this thread - but had an opinion that I'd be pissed at myself if I didn't post.

1) I'm a believer that points does determine who's a better fantasy team. You can not debate that. If my team scores more points than yours - I'm better - whether that's for one week (which then I'm just better for that week) or for one season (which means I'm better for the season). I'm very thankful that we weigh points favoritism like we do.

2) Personally, I like the suggestion that we can compete for league payouts with head-to-head, but qualifiers to the big dance should only be points, and only be the top two.

3) Don't water down the big dance by letting more teams in. This isn't the NFL (37% of teams qualify) - it's fantasy football for $100K - and let those that qualify to the dance after week 13 IN - and those that don't OUT!

4) I do like the 10% rule to cover those teams with great years that happen to be in a league with several high point teams.

5) Head-to-head each year allows teams in the dance those that had favorable match-up schedules in their league. You can not debate that either. When teams qualify for the dance based on records - with points significantly below other teams - they are benefactors of favorable matchups, PERIOD. There is a place for head-to-head (league payouts) - but when it comes to the big dance let the teams play that deserve to be there - POINTS! PERIOD!

6) As for third place - give the dollars to whomever qualifies by total points at season end. No need to break this into a different competion. Let the points continue to accumulate through week 16 for all teams and whoever ends the TOTAL SEASON with the next best points gets third.

- Bubba

Sandman62
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by Sandman62 » Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:26 am

Originally posted by Follow Me:
Now that I have Boldin and Colston back, I may be able to make up the 47 points to finish 2nd in Total Points and pick up the money for 3rd Place.

For now, finishing with the 2nd most Total Points is my goal.Wow, I thought I was reading about OUR team! :D We're 46 points behind our league leader. And like you, now that we have Colston/Boldin back, we feel confident that we can make a push in points over these last few weeks. AAMOF, this is the first week since week 1 that we will have ALL of our starting lineup (and w/ their key players around them) intact (now that Barber has Romo back, Cutler has Scheffler back, and Winslow's not suspended or icing his swollen sac)! :D

TURBOUGH
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by TURBOUGH » Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:33 am

So, are you considering a 3rd place playoff after all of this?

BTW, thanks for helping this discussion along.

Greg Ambrosius
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Should There Be A Third Place League Playoff In 2009?

Post by Greg Ambrosius » Fri Nov 21, 2008 3:56 am

Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
So, are you considering a 3rd place playoff after all of this?

BTW, thanks for helping this discussion along. Daryl, at the end of Week 13 I'll list all of the data again and see what it looks like. As of now, the data shows me that adding a second place h2h record into a third place money game would reward a team that in a lot of cases was the fifth, sixth or worse scoring team in that league and could punish a team that was third and even second in scoring in that same league. Now I know that's putting more of an emphasis on total points, but that is exactly what our format is now.

We reward best h2h record with $2,500, the chance to win $5,000 and the chance to win $100,000 now and many of the league races are tightly contested for that prize and the total points prize. In fact, most teams are still in line for h2h or points money.

So unless the data changes, I don't see a need for a third place league playoff game in 2009. But it's a good discussion and again let's look at the data after Week 13.
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