This game could set football back 60 years!!!

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:07 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
quote:Originally posted by Hells Satans:
quote:Originally posted by Old School:
No one mentioned the 4 dropped passes by the Broncos in the second half. They have the worst running backs and WR's in the league. Aaron Rodgers couldnt even function with this talent

Best play of the night, watching Darell Revis play matador as Tebow was about to flatten him. or was that Deion Sanders? Oh, stop. Other than the Decker pass, the rest of the throws were awful.

Why can't people on both sides just accept Tebow for what he is? He's a wonderful person (apparently, but at the end of the day who knows), a great leader, a great athlete, and one of the worst throwers of the football to play the QB position in recent memory. He has a ridiculous windup throwing motion but he's incredibly tough. He's a solid fantasy play but not elite. He's one of the best runners from the QB position I've ever seen but he's almost impossibly inaccurate and would be a turnover machine if he was required to to play the QB position like most QBs do or if his team needed him to put up 30 points a game, He has virtually no chance of ever leading his team to a Super Bowl (except in the event that the Broncos turn into the 2000 Ravens on D) and he's likely to get injured if he has to continue to run the offense this way because no one can take that type of beating for a long period of time. He's a one-man wrecking crew that by definition will stunt the growth of any young receivers on this team because of the style of play Denver is required to implement to accomodate his skillset. He's unorthodox but likely no worse (from a results perspective) than any number of "system QBs/game managers" that get passed around the league - it's just that the system needs to be run differently. [/QUOTE]That is quite the accurate summary!

[/QUOTE]Neither of you can think out of the box. too bad

Old School · Post by **Old School** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:10 am

Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
Read option has ran its course. If you go with Tebow you have to use him as the tailback like last night with the defense spread out. Uptempo with that style is very effective. Tired linemen and linebackers will struggle to handle him if he can just complete some here or there tou keep the extra safety out of the box. Sprinkle in a little read option but not make it the base. then how do u explain him throwing for over 300 yards as a ROOKIE last year with a decent offensive coach?

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 9:01 am

Originally posted by Old School:
quote:Originally posted by Cocktails and Dreams:
Read option has ran its course. If you go with Tebow you have to use him as the tailback like last night with the defense spread out. Uptempo with that style is very effective. Tired linemen and linebackers will struggle to handle him if he can just complete some here or there tou keep the extra safety out of the box. Sprinkle in a little read option but not make it the base. then how do u explain him throwing for over 300 yards as a ROOKIE last year with a decent offensive coach? [/QUOTE]Hmmm... how about this?
Tebow's opponent that game (HOU) had a defense that was ranked 32nd in passing and 24th in rushing, 29th overall.
Football Outsiders

Or this?
In 2010, HOU allowed a whopping 376 total yards per game (30th), 267.5 yards per game passing (32nd), 26.7 points per game (29th) and 33 passing TDs (tied for 31st).

Or this?
"His breakout performance came against a Houston Texans defense that [was] on pace to allow more passing yards than any team in NFL history, other than the 1995 Atlanta Falcons... Tebow completed just 16 of his 29 passes vs the Texans, the second-lowest completion percentage of any QB against Houston this season."
D-Gaps: Texans made Tebow look great

Or my personal favorite... despite how awful HOU's defense was last year, they were at their absolute worst at year's end after:
"[Mario] Williams, a Pro Bowler in 2008 and 2009, was slowed by a nagging sports hernia injury for most of the season. He finally landed on injured reserve on Dec. 15. He still led the Texans in sacks and upped his career total to 48.0, which ranks seventh in the NFL since his rookie year of 2006."
Note: Tebow's 300-yard passing game was on 12/26.

Don't the let facts get in the way of your worship!

[ November 19, 2011, 03:04 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

alanr824 · Post by **alanr824** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:21 am

I have kept quiet on the Tebow worship/hatred but it is crazy that this guy has pooled up so much in the way of opposite beliefs. Bottom line is, whether you love him or hate him... He WINS games, in college and now in the pros. His teammates have bought in. He has to get better at throwing the ball, but his ability to run the ball at QB, when the other team knows he is running it, are unlike very few players in NFL history. He is a winner. I personally believe that because he outwardly expresses his faith and is not cocky or arrogant like most professional athletes, he has surprised and, at times, pissed off many, maybe thinking that he is fake or thinks he is a better person than anyone else. It sure appeared to tick off Marshall Faulk on Thursday night after the game. Many former and current NFL players have done a lot of "off the field" good deeds, so this kid starts talking about childrens hospitals and prays openly during games, and somehow he is looked at as thinking he is better than the rest. He is a good kid, from a good background and he has very strong religious beliefs, and he doesn't care what anyone thinks about how he acts or what he does. I don't care who you are or what you believe in, if you cannot root for this kid, you have issues. (and I am a Jets fan who is devastated after the loss Thursday). Bottom line is, he is a winner, in every way.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:37 am

FWIW, I DO root for him. He's very fun to watch and inspirational as hell. I could care less about his religious beliefs but my personal preference is to not have religion forced in front of me when I watch sports. But I don't hold that against him.

Every single point I've ever made against him is focused solely on my dislike of him as a FANTASY QB - and not just over 5 games this year vs 4 horrible offenses and 3-1/2 horrible defenses. I'm looking fonward to the next 4-5 games to see if my gut was right or wrong on him as a fantasy QB.

[ November 19, 2011, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]

alanr824 · Post by **alanr824** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 10:58 am

Originally posted by Sandman62:
FWIW, I DO root for him. He's very fun to watch and inspirational as hell. I could care less about his religious beliefs but my personal preference is to not have religion forced in front of me when I watch sports. But I don't hold that against him.

Every single point I've ever made against him is focused solely on my dislike of him as a FANTASY QB - and not just over 5 games this year vs 4 horrible offenses and 3-1/2 horrible defenses. I'm looking fonward to the next 4-5 games to see if my gut was right or wrong on him as a fantasy QB. FWIW, I would rather see a player kneeling down on one knee and praying, then a player doing some stupid dance or other embarrassing celebration after getting a sack while losing by 21 points. And his fantasy production is middle of the pack as a QB. If you have a better option, don't start Tebow. His upside is better than most, but especially in our scoring format, he is not part of the elite QBs.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:14 am

Originally posted by Al R G:
And his fantasy production is middle of the pack as a QB.He's actually QB11 in average points per game in NFFC scoring going into tomorrow's games. He's been a QB1 since becoming the starter and he was a QB1 as a starter last season too. And as I pointed out, all but two of the QBs currently ranked ahead of Tebow have had worse games than he's produced at his worst. So not only is he a QB1 but he's proven to be extremely reliable. From a fantasy standpoint, there's not much negative you can say about him at this point in terms of production.

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:45 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
... And as I pointed out, all but two of the QBs currently ranked ahead of Tebow have had worse games than he's produced at his worst. a) Did you even look at this, Tom? :rolleyes: Yes, over his 5 games this year, many of the QBs above him had a lower worst game than his worst. But he also has had MORE sub-20-point games than ANY of the 10 in front of him (3) and most of them have had at least as many or more games over 25 than him!
b) I'll agree he's consistent, high floor, low ceiling. And depending upon your QB drafting strategy, I can see how he might be the perfect fit. If you prefer to wait on QBs and stock up at other positions, then a high-floor/low-ceiling QB is just what you need (and all you can really hope for if you waited til mid-rounds). However, I don't think he'll ever be a top-5-7 QB1 that gets drafted in the first 3 rounds. Different strokes for different folks.
c) Who says we've seen his worst yet? Take away the late-game miracle comebacks and he'd have had several 10-12 point games - just like I predict he will from here on.

Tom Kessenich · Post by **Tom Kessenich** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:52 am

Mike, I did look at that. It didn't refute the point I made. Tebow has been a QB1 in the NFFC as a starter, both this season and last season. That's a fact. You can't "take away the late-game miracle comebacks." They count. That's like saying if you took away all of Aaron Rodgers' touchdown passes this season he wouldn't be a QB1. The plays all count. You can't just wish away production because it doesn't meet your preconceived standards.

And obviously we don't know if Tebow can perform worse than he has so far. The same can be said for every single player in the NFL. All we can go on is what he's shown thus far in terms of trying to project the future. Regardless of how hard you want to fight it, the fact remains he's been a QB1 as a starter. That bodes well for him remaining at that level the rest of the season as long as he remains Denver's starter. And considering how reliable he's been, I think from his fantasy value is extremely safe at this point. Again, going back to the point I made when you look at that reliability there are only a few QBs I would consistently start ahead of Tebow at this point. That list isn't very long considering Tebow's floor has proven to be higher than nearly every QB currently ranked ahead of him.

The guy just produces. And wins. He seems to do that rather well too.

[ November 19, 2011, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Tom Kessenich ]

Sandman62 · Post by **Sandman62** » Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:55 am

Originally posted by Tom Kessenich:
... And as I pointed out, all but two of the QBs currently ranked ahead of Tebow have had worse games than he's produced at his worst. Hmmm, that's odd, I thought THIS was your latest point - which the stats I provided DO refute. I'm confused now.

And I understand you can't take away the miracle comebacks. My point is that miracles aren't likely to continue and when they stop, so will his marginal QB1 starter status.

BTW, I'm sure this will continue throughout the week, but maybe we should do so back in the 20-page Tebow thread?

[ November 19, 2011, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Sandman62 ]