3rd Round Reversal (14_Teams)

Gordon Gekko · Post by **Gordon Gekko** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:05 am

KOTRAX: just an fyi...i don't even bother reading your posts because you post in all caps. you may be the best writer and/or have the best ideas of all time, but you are losing many MB readers with your posting style.

just thought you'd want to know.

bluenose · Post by **bluenose** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:30 am

Who did Kotex draft in round 2, between Lt and the QBs?

KOTRAX · Post by **KOTRAX** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 9:35 am

MY FEELINGS ARE NOT HURT IF YOU DON'T READ MY POST G.G. FOR SOME REASON I THINK I CAN GO ON IN LIFE IF YOU DON'T READ THEM. I HAVE OTHERS WHO DO. TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION BLUENOSE. BOLDIN

Jeff Pasquino · Post by **Jeff Pasquino** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:40 am

Originally posted by Greg Ambrosius:
It's a good article and has data from last season that proves that the top picks will likely score more points than the bottom picks in every system used. However, when you use our version of 3RR or his version the point differential is narrowed considerably. In a 14-team format, the point differential between the high and low scores in a league narrow almost 200 points between a straight serpentine draft and our 3RR format. The top picks would still score more points than the bottom picks in 3RR, but the gap is narrowed as everyone expected.

He says that last year the 11th and 12th picks would fare the worst, but every year is different, right?

I would agree with his analysis, but this debate about whether we should call this 3RR or 3RS is kind of goofy. I think we kind of made this up to begin with, but maybe not!

Hi Greg,

Glad you enjoyed the article.

I'm about to walk through this thread and give a few responses.

Jeff Pasquino · Post by **Jeff Pasquino** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:44 am

Originally posted by KJ Duke:
Actually, he is trying to say that 3RR is not 3RR, that it is really 3RS (3rd rd serpentine), and that "true 3RR" does not switch back to normal after rd 3, rather after round 4 with the bottom slots getting top pick in rd 2, 3, &4! That term makes no sense, I would call that 3&4RR. A google search shows that the usage of 3RR is all in regard to NFFC lges - nowhere else did I see his version (maybe his local league calls it that, so he is upset about it). He states that the term 3RR is confusing, but he is the only one that seems confused by it.

As for his conclusion, he believes the alternate version of 3RR, which I will call 3&4RR, is statistically the most equalizing, that 3RR doesn't go far enough but is a vast improvement over straight serpentine.

I would disagree with his conclusion that 3&4RR is the best method ... I think the proof of this would be in KDS results - if 3&4RR was used instead of 3RR I think we'd see more complaints, and more people loading up at the end draft slots. Anything at the top after slot 1, in particular, would be viewed as a very poor slot imo. Hi KJ,

The terms weren't invented by me - I just adopted them from our message board members.

The 3RR term for just flipping Round 3 makes sense - literally "Third Round Reversal" can easily mean "just flip the third round" - but it is semantical and doesn't matter much.

The whole 3RS/3RR/snake/double snake terminology is just something I adopted as most are familiar with each - yet I defined each at the outset of the article so we can all talk in the same language.

Jeff Pasquino · Post by **Jeff Pasquino** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:47 am

Originally posted by Nag':
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
quote:Originally posted by Nag':
Based on his research, the author of the article concluded that 3RR is the fairest way to draft a in a 14 team league, with regard to equal distribution of talent. do you agree with the writer's conclusion? [/QUOTE]Considering it's based on values obtained from something called a "Pick Value Calculator", it sounds like complete nonsense. No offese to the author. [/QUOTE]Hi Nag',

I had to pick some basis for valuing each pick.

The NFL has a Pick Value Chart, as does KFFL and FBG.

Given that the article was for Footballguys, I naturally picked the FBG calculator (which can be used to create a chart).

I stated in the article that I didn't want to debate the validity of each value for each pick (that wasn't the intent of the article) so that's up to your own interpretation.

I'm sure you can come up with different values each year for each pick, but I had enough work on my plate to make 3 versions (12, 14, and 16 teams) of 4 league formats and thought I would rather not reinvent the wheel.

I think the conclusion still is pretty valuable and valid.

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:49 am

I don't like 3rr at all.

It gives guys like Snake and Gordon Gekko too much of adventage over the rest of us.
I'll try it this year and see how it works for me.

Jeff Pasquino · Post by **Jeff Pasquino** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:49 am

Originally posted by SNAKE:
...WTF is a "Double Snake"?...SNAKE "Double Snake" is "Double Serpentine", meaning that the pattern is:

1-14
14-1
14-1
1-14
1-14
14-1
14-1
1-14
1-14
....

so it is a snake draft but you get the same order 2x in a row.

I don't know how popular that format is, and I've never used it.

Raiders · Post by **Raiders** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:51 am

Jeff,

You sending a FBG team to NFFC?
I really hope so.

Jeff Pasquino · Post by **Jeff Pasquino** » Mon Jul 30, 2007 4:52 am

Ok, I think I covered most of the discussion on the topic.

Greg, I'm sure we'll talk more about this at FSTA.

Thanks for the interest in the article.