Are big money leagues really worth it?
Are big money leagues really worth it?
All points are valid. I wasn't here attacking the NFFC or anything. It was simply a topic to discuss. I've already committed to 2007. I enjoy these leagues and will for a long time. But as expected, some people (Gekko) take it as a personal attack. Like I stated on the original post, I wanted no personal attacks but should have known better with some of the classless particpants.
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by RiFF:
There is no question that one of the main reasons for entering or not entering a contest was its percentage payout. I generally set the minimum at 80%, and wouldn't join a contest that fell much below that. Also high on the list was/is customer service along with the experience of participating in that contest. The experience included perceived level of competition, structure of contest, comraderie of participants, support level provided by organizers etc., etc.
Great post RiFF. These are the exact things that I look for as well.
There is no question that one of the main reasons for entering or not entering a contest was its percentage payout. I generally set the minimum at 80%, and wouldn't join a contest that fell much below that. Also high on the list was/is customer service along with the experience of participating in that contest. The experience included perceived level of competition, structure of contest, comraderie of participants, support level provided by organizers etc., etc.
Great post RiFF. These are the exact things that I look for as well.
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Always a good topic, I'll chime in.
As someone who plays strictly in highstakes leagues (both individual and large contests with $1000 entry or higher) here's a couple of my thoughts.
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. Not to mention the appeal of participating in an "event" like NFFC and WCOFF.
As for individual leagues, I personally will never play in one where the winnings are subject to a 1099. At least not as long as I have an alternative. And currently, I do.
As someone who plays strictly in highstakes leagues (both individual and large contests with $1000 entry or higher) here's a couple of my thoughts.
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. Not to mention the appeal of participating in an "event" like NFFC and WCOFF.
As for individual leagues, I personally will never play in one where the winnings are subject to a 1099. At least not as long as I have an alternative. And currently, I do.
For Players. By Players.
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sportsbettingman
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 6:00 pm
Are big money leagues really worth it?
You pretty much have to win your league every other year to every 3rd year to break even...depending on how much you decide to spend/waste on the vacation part of the draft weekend. (The best part!)
It's a brutal ROI...I agree. But for those like myself...needing a competition "out"...there's no better competition than the WCOFF/NFFC/NFBC.
There's also perks and some writing/fame for the winners/consistently high finishers.
It's too damn fun to quit!
Pssst...Nag...hook me up with that side league w/out the 1099 you spoke of!
~Lance
It's a brutal ROI...I agree. But for those like myself...needing a competition "out"...there's no better competition than the WCOFF/NFFC/NFBC.
There's also perks and some writing/fame for the winners/consistently high finishers.
It's too damn fun to quit!
Pssst...Nag...hook me up with that side league w/out the 1099 you spoke of!
~Lance
"The first man what makes a move can count amongst 'is treasure a ball from this pistol."
~Long John Silver
~Long John Silver
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by Nag':
Always a good topic, I'll chime in.
As someone who plays strictly in highstakes leagues (both individual and large contests with $1000 entry or higher) here's a couple of my thoughts.
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. Not to mention the appeal of participating in an "event" like NFFC and WCOFF.
As for individual leagues, I personally will never play in one where the winnings are subject to a 1099. At least not as long as I have an alternative. And currently, I do. Nag,
I know EXACTLY of what "alternative" you are talking about.
Although I do play Fantasy Football to supplement my income, $$$ IS NOT the most important factor I choose. As most have mentioned, there is an ENTERTAINMENT value here, along with knowing you can "play and beat the best".
The "alternative" you speak of offers NEITHER of those in my opinion, as they;
1) Are EXTREMELY boring (no comraderie at all)
2) Do not have the competition (again, if pounding on CONSISTENT weaker players is your thing, I agree it IS for you).
&
3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???
I played in this "alternative" the past 3 years, but probably won't return in 2007, for the reasons I stated above. If it is all about "tax free cash", then it is for you.
Always a good topic, I'll chime in.
As someone who plays strictly in highstakes leagues (both individual and large contests with $1000 entry or higher) here's a couple of my thoughts.
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. Not to mention the appeal of participating in an "event" like NFFC and WCOFF.
As for individual leagues, I personally will never play in one where the winnings are subject to a 1099. At least not as long as I have an alternative. And currently, I do. Nag,
I know EXACTLY of what "alternative" you are talking about.
Although I do play Fantasy Football to supplement my income, $$$ IS NOT the most important factor I choose. As most have mentioned, there is an ENTERTAINMENT value here, along with knowing you can "play and beat the best".
The "alternative" you speak of offers NEITHER of those in my opinion, as they;
1) Are EXTREMELY boring (no comraderie at all)
2) Do not have the competition (again, if pounding on CONSISTENT weaker players is your thing, I agree it IS for you).
&
3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???
I played in this "alternative" the past 3 years, but probably won't return in 2007, for the reasons I stated above. If it is all about "tax free cash", then it is for you.
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by BillyWaz:
The "alternative" you speak of offers NEITHER of those in my opinion, as they;
1) Are EXTREMELY boring (no comraderie at all)
2) Do not have the competition (again, if pounding on CONSISTENT weaker players is your thing, I agree it IS for you).
&
3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???
Billy,
1. That's very subjective as I am not one who needs the "comraderie" you speak of or the constant MB trash talk.
2. This is incorrect. Most owners are very capable and involved. There are many WCOFF veterans playing there, especially in the $500-$1000 levels. I found the ratio of weak players to strong ones not much different than in your average NFFC/WCOFF league. But in all honesty, if it so happens that there is a "less than top-notch" owner in my $1000 entry league, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
3. Personally, I have always benefited from the ability to trade, but I obviously will agree with you on this point as far as collusion is a danger when trading is allowed. Although I have not experienced a blatant example of it in the 4 years playing and I DID see some unbalanced trades which have been correctly overruled by the commish.
The "alternative" you speak of offers NEITHER of those in my opinion, as they;
1) Are EXTREMELY boring (no comraderie at all)
2) Do not have the competition (again, if pounding on CONSISTENT weaker players is your thing, I agree it IS for you).
&
3) COLLUSION can occur due to trading. This is the MAJOR thing that turns me off. I can have a stellar draft and because one guy "rips a few people off", he now has team a equal to, or better than mine"???
Billy,
1. That's very subjective as I am not one who needs the "comraderie" you speak of or the constant MB trash talk.
2. This is incorrect. Most owners are very capable and involved. There are many WCOFF veterans playing there, especially in the $500-$1000 levels. I found the ratio of weak players to strong ones not much different than in your average NFFC/WCOFF league. But in all honesty, if it so happens that there is a "less than top-notch" owner in my $1000 entry league, I have no problem with that whatsoever.
3. Personally, I have always benefited from the ability to trade, but I obviously will agree with you on this point as far as collusion is a danger when trading is allowed. Although I have not experienced a blatant example of it in the 4 years playing and I DID see some unbalanced trades which have been correctly overruled by the commish.
For Players. By Players.
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Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by TURBOUGH:
All points are valid. I wasn't here attacking the NFFC or anything. It was simply a topic to discuss. I've already committed to 2007. I enjoy these leagues and will for a long time. But as expected, some people (Gekko) take it as a personal attack. Like I stated on the original post, I wanted no personal attacks but should have known better with some of the classless particpants. you basically said, "is it really worth entering the NFFC, as local leagues have a better ROI?"
classless participants? start by looking in the mirror.
All points are valid. I wasn't here attacking the NFFC or anything. It was simply a topic to discuss. I've already committed to 2007. I enjoy these leagues and will for a long time. But as expected, some people (Gekko) take it as a personal attack. Like I stated on the original post, I wanted no personal attacks but should have known better with some of the classless particpants. you basically said, "is it really worth entering the NFFC, as local leagues have a better ROI?"
classless participants? start by looking in the mirror.
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
-
Gordon Gekko
- Posts: 7222
- Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2004 6:00 pm
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by Nag':
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. hey nag - how have you been?
ummm..i got a D in statistics but when you compute ROI, don't you factor in the Grand Prize? the way you have it listed it sounds like you don't factor it in?
btw, did you take me up on my l.evans pimping in the preseason. what did you honestly think when i told you in the that "lee evans is #14 on my WR board"?
Considering the typical 20% organizer's cut, potential taxes and travel costs, the ROI in the NFFC and WCOFF is AWFUL. To those who consider ROI as the most important factor, these contests are not for you. Having said that, as already stated by others, the chance to win the 100G or 200G Grand Prize (along with some of the secondary ones) is what allows most to overlook the poor ROI. hey nag - how have you been?
ummm..i got a D in statistics but when you compute ROI, don't you factor in the Grand Prize? the way you have it listed it sounds like you don't factor it in?
btw, did you take me up on my l.evans pimping in the preseason. what did you honestly think when i told you in the that "lee evans is #14 on my WR board"?
Is my "weekend warrior" prep better than your prep?
Are big money leagues really worth it?
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko:
hey nag - how have you been?
ummm..i got a D in statistics but when you compute ROI, don't you factor in the Grand Prize? the way you have it listed it sounds like you don't factor it in?
btw, did you take me up on my l.evans pimping in the preseason. what did you honestly think when i told you in the that "lee evans is #14 on my WR board"? If you consider taxes, the ROI on any of the prizes, including 100/200G is unacceptable, considering the odds of winning, imo.
I drafted Evans as my #3 WR with my 4.12 pick in WCOFF so I was on-board the entire way.
[ February 11, 2007, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]
hey nag - how have you been?
ummm..i got a D in statistics but when you compute ROI, don't you factor in the Grand Prize? the way you have it listed it sounds like you don't factor it in?
btw, did you take me up on my l.evans pimping in the preseason. what did you honestly think when i told you in the that "lee evans is #14 on my WR board"? If you consider taxes, the ROI on any of the prizes, including 100/200G is unacceptable, considering the odds of winning, imo.
I drafted Evans as my #3 WR with my 4.12 pick in WCOFF so I was on-board the entire way.
[ February 11, 2007, 02:42 PM: Message edited by: Nag' ]
For Players. By Players.